127: Job Search Jumpstart: Proven Strategies and Tips from Holly Owens and Nadia Johnson on Landing a role in EdTech and Instructional Design

Holly Owens (00:41):

Well, good morning everyone. How are you? It's Fra. Hope you're excited to be here with us and I'm going to bring Nadia on the stage. Hey Nadia. Hi. Can you hear me? Hi. Yep. Don't have my microphone all the way in Seattle today. I know your pretty mic's missing. Somebody from IPR calls it my Barbie mic. I just love it. I did a TikTok the other day and you saw the colors going through as I was presenting. It's really, really, I love our mics. They're really cool. We're very stylish. Are you excited to talk about jobs?

Nadia Johnson (01:33):

Let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. So welcome everyone. We're going to start going live every Friday and we're going to turn this into episodes of ed up ed Tech with Nadia and myself and talking about different roles and things that we've learned throughout our transitions into instructional design, ed tech, the different industries that exist. And we really want to focus on sharing our best advice for you because we get inundated with questions in our LinkedIn inboxes and we want to make sure we're out there supporting the community and also sharing great resources that we have found to be super helpful for you that are free and can get you started on the right path. So today we want to focus on starting the transition and what that's like. So one of the things that I most in my inbox, I don't know about you Nadia, is people say, where do I begin? Where do I start? How do I even think about jumping into a new role? Whether that's from teaching, whether you're jumping from corporate to education or education to corporate instructional design or ed tech. So what do we think about that? I'll let you go first.

Nadia Johnson(02:51):

 How do you begin? I think the biggest thing is your niche and figuring out what you want to do. I think that's what's going to help you build confidence. What's going to help you go forth and apply and I mean figure out what you want to do. I think that's the biggest thing. My mom just actually transitioned from education. She was in higher ed for 20 plus years and has finally just landed a job in the legal field, which she's been wanting to do for years. And the biggest thing I told her was like, you need to figure out what you want to do. You have, that's a decision that you have to make and then you have to go for it and be on this track of this is what I want to do and I'm going to get there and I'm not going to let any other little things get in my way of getting there. So I think the biggest thing is to make the decision of what you want to do. I've talked to transitioning teachers before and I had one tell me, I said, so what is it that you want to do when you leave the classroom? And she was like, I just want to leave the classroom. I don't really don't care. I just want to leave. And I said, but you've got to pick something that you want. You've got to find a niche, you have to find a role, find something that interests you so that you can sell yourself there or otherwise it's going to be a little bit more difficult. So I think that's the biggest thing is figuring out what it is that you want to do and sticking To it. Yeah, I definitely 100% agree with you on that. It's just not a matter of making the decision to leave.

Nadia Johnson (04:35):

You got to know where you're going exactly. And what you want to do. I completely understand the need, the feel the want to just get out of that trauma of the classroom. And you've been in it for so long and a lot of we, we've talked to a lot of transitioning teachers who've been in classroom for a lot longer than we were ever in the classroom. And they just want a change. They want something different. They want to work life balance. They want to feel appreciated. So definitely you have to know what you want to do. And I would also say along with that, that goes along with it is do your research. One of the first things I tell people to do is figure out what industry do you want to be in? Because the l and d space, the ed tech space is vast, huge.

(05:19):

And you can't just say, I want to be an instructional designer, but in what area do you want to be in higher education? Do you want to be at a two year institution, a community college, a four year institution, a larger institution like a D one school? Where do you See yourself fitting? Do you want a hybrid role? Do you want to be in the corporate sector? Do you want to be a nonprofit government? There's so many decisions that you have to make before you even start applying to roles as you're making the transition into it. So I think that along with knowing where you want to go and doing the research, that combination is really going to help you figure out your next steps. Because I think everybody, I don't know about you, but they jump immediately to, I need a resume, I need a portfolio, I need this, I need this and this.

(06:12):

And they start gathering stuff and I'm like, but you don't know yet exactly where you're going And how to tailor it for that industry. And I think that's the biggest thing because during the professional journey days, that's what I struggled with the most. I was like torn between, do I stay in K 12 curriculum development and instructional design, or do I move into this corporate ID space? I felt torn between the two and I was like, I dunno. I ended up having interviews for both and ended up kind of exploring both. But I think truly where I really wanted to be was to remain in K 12 education. But I think it's one of those things, you really just have to figure it out. And I think it's okay to be torn in between two and still apply. I was still applying for two. I was still applying for corporate ID roles, but I was also still applying for those ed tech roles.

(07:08):

So I think it's somewhat okay to kind of know that this is the type of role you want, but be open to different industries. But I think you really need to at least choose, figure out where you're going. Yeah, you 100% need to choose, and we're not saying the day that you choose, you have to know everything. It's important to know that this is a process. And I think people get overwhelmed, and you can speak to this and I can speak that we get so overwhelmed our livelihood, we want to find a role, we want to find something that it fits in with, whether that's remote or hybrid, but you have to take a step back and really see what you want. And at some point, we'll obviously get to the interview stages, but you want to make sure that you're a good fit for the company too.

(08:01):

Absolutely. You're not just taking the first thing out the gate. And you can do that and be in a temporary role and learn as much as you can, but you want to make sure that you're finding something that's sustainable for you. Absolutely. Yep. You want to tell us a little bit, I want to know more. I mean I know, but I want the audience to know a little bit more about your transition from the classroom and maybe some of your best advice for people getting into the ed tech industry. And you stayed on the peripheral of education, which is a great opportunity for especially transitioning teachers to kind of stay in that comfort zone, but also get the experience of what it's like to work in a corporate type setting. Yeah, I always like to say I transitioned twice because it feels like I did.

(09:17):

I initially transitioned from the classroom in 2021, which the job market at that time wasn't that crazy as it is now. So I found my first role within ed tech out of the classroom maybe in two months. It really wasn't. I applied, I interviewed, it was a long interview process, like four rounds of interviews, but did that and ended up landing the job that summer of 2021, literally right out of the classroom. Had that role for about a year and a half, and then was a part of a reduction in force at that point. I had to start all over again. And in this case, the job market wasn't quite great because other companies that were experiencing layoffs and reduction in forces, and there were now at this point, there are a year and a half later, there are tons of teachers trying to leave the classroom. So it was just a very, very competitive job. Market lot jobs. It became Saturated. Yes. Lots of people hearing about instructional design, learning design, curriculum development, and wanting to move. Lots of people wanting to go into ed tech. And so this is where I felt like, okay, I have to now start this process all over.

(10:50):

And I ended up finding a role, which I'm in now after lots of trial and error, lots of interviews, lots of ghosting from recruiters, all of the things that people, all The things are going to talk about how to do, Lots of the it. And you were pretty much there for the whole thing listening to me vent. But yeah, so that's kind of how I transitioned. Initially. I didn't know what instructional design was before my first transition, but a colleague at my school that I was teaching at a charter school was telling me about it and telling me that she was going to this program at Georgia State, and I was for adults and corporate, I don't know, I love kids, I love education. I don't know if it's for me, instructional design is everywhere within higher ed, corporate and k12. And so once the pandemic hit and I started have to create online curriculum for my students, I was kind of enjoying it. And I was like, all right, well, it looks like I need to actually do this full time.

(12:12):

So then instructional design, that whole conversation I had with that colleague kind of popped in my head and I applied to Georgia State for the program, got accepted and looks like I will be walking across that stage in May. So woo-hoo. Instructional design has been something I've absolutely enjoyed. Love the company, extremely happy I made that transition and had that conversation back when I was teaching and it's been a very long journey. But yeah, it's been great. I mean, I really cannot complain now that it's all that we are here. Yeah, it's been really inspirational, actually watching. And I'm not just saying that it truly has because I have seen your confidence grow by leaps and bounds in every situation that you've been in no matter at the time. And Aaron says at the bottom of the peak, and I know there were a lot of peaks in your transition or a lot of those little valleys in your little valley, we'll say little valleys in your transition, but you persevered and you didn't give up, which is I think so important in this market, especially when you're talking about how competitive it is now because people are aware that what instructional design is and that it exists and it's really valuable part of a team, no matter, no matter what the topic, no matter what the technology, instructional designers bring stuff to the table in terms of different skills and knowledge.

(13:55):

It has great watching. And now that you coho, we have a podcast together. And can you just think about, I want to remind people that where you're sitting right now is not where you're staying is a process. And think about where you started in this journey and to where you are now because you may not see it on a daily basis, but progress has been made. Yeah, thanks. I appreciate that. I think sometimes, I mean I notice it and I see it too, but I think I still struggle with that imposter syndrome. I still struggle with that. Was I supposed to be here? Is this kind of thing. And so I think we all do at some point. But yeah, I look back and as hard as it was, and I know there are so many people out there who have experienced a layoff, and my heart literally goes out to you, and I know that there's so many that have happened in January and have happened just in this week.

(15:00):

I see a new one every new post on LinkedIn every day. And I know that there's this idea of people telling you that it's going to be okay, and you don't want to really hear that I get all of those sentiments. But like you said, where you are now is not, this too shall pass. It's like you will not be in the same space forever. Okay, this too shall pass. The job market is crazy, but this too shall pass. You will find where you are supposed to land. And I just had to keep reminding myself, no matter how many times someone told me that and I didn't want to hear it and I didn't feel like it was going to get better, it gets better. And growth comes on. The other side is growth on the other side is confidence on the other side is resilience.

(15:55):

You'll get there. But I know that it's tough, so I don't want to try to sugar coat it and make it sound pretty. I know it's not. Yeah, absolutely. The layoff situation is a very difficult one because I experienced that this week and you're thankful that you made it through, but you're also watching your coworkers lose their livelihood, and it's very tough too to cope with. It's like a death. It's like you don't get to work with those people who you've been working with every day. And I definitely think there's a conversation there to be had too about how to deal with layoffs or how to deal with impending situations where you are going to lose your role and what to do there. And I do want to talk about that more, but maybe another session. But yeah, it's an epidemic right now, these layoffs and restructuring and I don't know when it's going to end. I think that's the thing, you can kind of sometimes feel like, okay, we've had one or two and we feel a little safe, but then they're like, oh no, it's another thing again. So psychologically it's like, ugh, how do we deal with this? Reopening a wound every, I mean, because mine was in 2022, So we have, yeah, it it's recent. It's very new this week. It's still happening. We had some questions in the chat, so I'm going to show one. Let me make sure if it lets me click on it.

(17:33):

Oh, maybe I need to take the, oh here. So do you have guidance on the best way to job search? I'm going to say I'm going to go with my method 20 minutes a day doing it. And maybe if you're deciding between two different sectors, go one or the other. If you're looking in the education space, maybe spend 20 minutes a day looking through LinkedIn postings or whatever your favorite job site is and just spending that much time on it because I feel like people make it a full-time job to search for roles and you're going to get burnt out really, really quickly, very, very Quickly. I would say that as well. And I would also kind of add to that, and people say this all the time, but unfortunately I feel like there is some truth to it. It's really hard to find a job by just taking your resume and throwing it to the application system.

(18:43):

It really is. So I would not spend tons of time doing that. The two offers that I did receive, the one that I accepted and then there was one that I shared about the story about that I had to turn down because it just wasn't a right fit for me. Those two offers I got through a recruiter on LinkedIn or someone sending me the job and kind of giving me that, here's this job, you should check it out. I reached out to So-and-so kind of a referral situation. So I would say spend more time networking, looking at LinkedIn, looking at people that have that purple hiring tag in their picture that actually have roles and jobs connect with the people that you want to at the companies that you want to work for, connect with those people. I did that as well and looked out for any jobs or freelancing gigs that they had.

(19:39):

So I think for me, networking paid off a little bit more than just spraying and praying or putting out my application with a sea of 300 other applicants. So I think that's what I spent way more time networking, way more time connecting with people who had the hiring power and kind of optimizing my LinkedIn profile for recruiters to come to me versus me having to do a bunch of extra work and putting in applications. Yeah, I always say that you can buy as many lottery tickets as you want, but you still have the same chances of winning no matter how many you buy. So that spraying and praying situation, a lot of people say, I've applied for 200 roles and I haven't got one hit. You're not narrowing your focus or figuring out where you want to be. And I will say it's super tempting with situation on LinkedIn, the easy applied constantly in those applications and send out your resume, but you're very much right.

(20:52):

So we've talked about knowing where you want to go doing the research and now we're talking about network networking is so important. It's old school technique, especially in the age that we are in. But you have to know somebody that knows somebody nowadays or somebody who can here and people that have dabbled in a few different fields like K to 12 and 90. Obviously Nadia and myself have both done some freelance work in all different areas from K to 12, higher ed corporate, smaller companies being 10 99 contractors just because it adds experience and value to your resume. And I would say that it's important for you to, if you're thinking about transitioning into this role and you can land something contractual for six months to a year, it's really going to look good that you're upskilling or you're trying to find your way here and just get some experience. There are so many different types of companies in the l and d space that need support and especially for transitioning teachers, they are awesome. They know they come in, they're such hard workers, they know exactly what they need to do. They're organized, they can project manage, and that's a big piece of instructional design.

(22:54):

The best way to learn and to upskill is by doing it. That is literally the best way in contract work. Lance work is what I tapped into and dabbled into during that transition of that second transition of me looking for a new job in this job market. And it helped to position me for a new career. Every project that I worked on was beneficial for where I am now. So I am an advocate for freelance work and it's not something I think I would want to do full time forever, but it's definitely, I've got to work on some really cool and impactful projects. Got a lot of different learn different processes and different ways in which people develop curriculum, develop, learning, so valuable experience. Yeah, can't say anything bad about freelancing and I think it gives you something to add to your resume levels you up and helps you to really upskill. So yeah, I love freelance work and I did it in the K 12 space. Elizabeth wants to know where we go for freelance work. A lot of mine's been word of mouth, but also on Upwork as well. I know Upwork in some of those platforms and obviously pop up LinkedIn. I'm seeing a lot more of that.

(25:36):

So that's where I typically see it Honestly got, so one of them, so I did some work with near Pod that was through a referral connection. There is another company that I've done projects with and they kind of just keep me on their list of writers. And that actually was through a recruiter who reached out to me on LinkedIn, said, I have a project, are you interested in it with a company and LinkedIn optimization? I'm giving that one to LinkedIn optimization. And then another project that I worked on, I found through the LinkedIn job site. So it just, they had just posted it and I thought I had missed it.

(26:27):

And the next day they said, you're on a project, great, come on. And I'm like, oh wow, that was easy. So LinkedIn job site site, I optimized my LinkedIn profile had recruit reach out to me. So I'm a big advocate in optimizing your LinkedIn profile. I had tons of recruiters reach out to me. So a lot of, I Feel like that's going to be alive, that's going to definitely be one of our lives. Was talking about LinkedIn, we're going to nerd out on LinkedIn for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like that's a whole process in itself, just getting your profile and things. It's more of an expectation now to have a LinkedIn profile than it has ever been before pre covid, like connecting with people and it's a way to network across The world and there's things that you can do to specifically target recruiters to reach out to you.

(27:18):

And I dug into that research and tried to figure that out as much as I could because I was like, if that is another avenue for me to get a job, let's do it. Yeah. So we've talked about knowing what you want to do, the research, networking, LinkedIn. There's been a few questions in the chat about some helpful websites and stuff. And one of the things I do want to mention is one of my favorite, and I'm sure it's one of your favorites too, and they're not sponsoring this or anything. I'm legit. This is one of my favorite Things. I know what you're going to say.

(27:54):

I know Teal, Teal, I Love Teal and I do too. I love the opportunities that they offer for you to track some of your jobs. The job tracker is something that if you don't have Teal, that's what I use. You definitely need to get it to track what you're doing to look for different jobs. They have a Google add-on that. If you is just an example of I just saved a couple roles, like say application sent when you're targeting, when you want to get that job. Obviously they have some more availability if you purchase the full access to Teal with keywords and different things. And I think it's super helpful and affordable as well. They're not sponsoring this. I would love for them to sponsor us, but I can't say enough good things about how organized this site is and how it helps you to, if you want to, if you're say applying for roles, you're going into the job tracker and you can see what you've applied for, what you need to follow up on.

(29:05):

People make very complicated spreadsheets for this. Teal just does it. It's just alright there, you save the information, you update it. You can see some different roles that I saved recently with the impending layoffs. But yeah. Nadia, what do you like about Teo? What do you like about Teo? I'll be able to talk about it for years and years. I use the tracker, although it is hard to keep track. I mean you put in so many applications. At one point I just was like, forget the tracker. I just need a job. Let me just put in these applications. So I used the a little bit, so it did give me a good idea, but I probably wasn't as consistent with the tracker as I should have been. But they do also have a hub that really helped me. They have videos about interviewing. They have videos.

(29:55):

They have videos about resumes. They have videos about cover letters. They have videos about all of those things. And that helped me. I also used the resume builder a little bit to kind of create a master resume and at least just get all of my roles down and kind of figure out how to structure it. I didn't actually use the format that they used, but I did use a lot of the little extra tools. I used the one where it would highlight words for you in a job description so that you could then take those words and put them on a resume to help you send out that thing where you could click on the job description and it'll show you the highlighted keywords. I used that. So there were really cool things that I used Teal four. I did use the extension where it would automatically add jobs.

(30:51):

I think that was the easiest way to do it, but if I had to manually add it, it probably didn't get added. It Wasn't happening. Yeah, And definitely the extension works both in LinkedIn road and other sites, so it recognizes if there's a job somewhere. And what's important about this, this add-on, is that you can save jobs for later. When I say take that 20 minutes, save a few jobs, go apply, figure out where you're at with your starting point if you need to do any follow-ups. And it also alerts you. It also tells you when you need to follow up. You can set a date and it will send you a notification too, follow up. So it's project managing you.

(31:37):

I just love Teal. I could talk about it all day. Well, we're coming up on the end of the session here. Nadia, any final thoughts about starting the job process and transitioning or any final advice, piece of advice you can give people who are looking to transition into our industry and they want to get into ed tech, they wanted to get into instructional design, any learning experience, design, those kinds of positions? Any final advice? I think the biggest thing is research. Find out what it is that you want to do and make sure that you're researching enough to know, is this something I need to upskill or is this a skill that I already have and just need to refine or refresh, try to make the, and that right there was the biggest piece of advice, well, not advice that I got during my transition, but Sarah. Sarah, is it her? Is Itra? I can't, Yes, yes, yes, yes. She posted. I always say her last name wrong. Sarah, you have to tell us how to say your last name, but I think Awesome.

(33:02):

Yes. And she posted that the other day and I was like, chef kiss. Great advice. Sometimes you're upskilling and don't need to upskill. She's so helpful. So research, yeah, figure out what it is that you really want to do. And then I think the biggest one for me was just LinkedIn optimization and networking. Find a community that's going to cheer you on, that's going to help you, that's going to be able to answer your questions, things like that. Find a community within your network and LinkedIn optimization. I do see a question that says what ways did you change your profile to get a project? Stay tuned because I definitely want to go into LinkedIn optimization, but we would be here forever today, Here for another two Hours that were the case. The future episode, we'll definitely do another live about in ways in which we optimized our LinkedIn.

(33:54):

Yeah, really great questions in the chat. I'm happy that we could highlight a few for this session and I are going to work to do this every Friday. Whether one of us is here or both of us is here so that we can provide you with the best advice and great resources. We're also going to turn this into an episode for our podcast, which is Ed Uped Tech. We encourage you to go out there and listen to our show. We have a wonderful guest who talk about their ed tech companies and their stories, and it's all related. Everything here in the job market. People come on the show, talk about that, what they're doing. So would love to have you join us in our community of ed up ed tech and thanks going live with us today, Nadia, and chatting about your experiences. Yeah, it's like 6 5 30 Here, but I made it. I know. I was just looking at the clock. I was like, it's 6:00 AM on the west coast. Nadia and I both live in the same state, but we haven't met in person yet. But she's out on a work trip and she was gracious enough to wake up fairly early to do the live so we could chat. It's awesome. Well, so thank you. Perfect. All right everyone. Have a great weekend and we'll see you next week. Yes, see you next week.