135: TechTalent: Navigating Recruitment in Ed Tech with Former Educator Spencer Sharp

Holly Owens (00:02):

Hello everyone and welcome to another fantastic episode of Edup Ed Tech. My name is Holly Owens

DaNadia Johnson (00:10):

And my name is Nadia Johnson and we're your hosts And

Holly Owens (00:15):

We're super pumped for an extra special episode for you to today. We have an ed tech recruiter with us, so you're going to want to hear all the wonderful questions we ask and all the advice that he gives. So we have Spencer Sharp, he's a talent specialist at Field Pros Inc. Spencer, welcome to the show.

DaNadia Johnson (00:33):

Welcome. Yeah, thank you guys for having me. I think it's long overdue, been messaging Nadia a little bit here and there and seeing

Spencer Sharp (00:41):

Some awesome stuff on LinkedIn. So really excited to join the show and just chat a little bit today around this recruiting world inside of EdTech. Well,

Holly Owens (00:49):

We're excited too because we definitely want to know more about this recruiting world and we get questions in our LinkedIn messages all the time about the EdTech world and how do you get a role in EdTech and lots of transitioning teachers.

DaNadia Johnson (01:02):

But

Holly Owens (01:02):

Before we jump into all things recruiting, we want to know a little bit more about you, Spencer Toast. Tell us about your background, how'd you get here into EdTech recruiting? Give us all the details.

Spencer Sharp (01:12):

Absolutely, yeah, and I always start out saying, if you would've told me I would be where I am today, probably five years ago, I probably would've laughed at you. I would've been like, there's just no possible way,

Holly Owens (01:22):

And that's where I was going to end up. So right out of college, I took on an opportunity at a school as a teacher teaching stem, did one of the first STEM programs in Indiana.

Spencer Sharp (01:31):

Really cool opportunity to kind of build something from the ground up. Started my own podcast and company. I'm doing professional development, STEM curriculum, all that stuff. My wife now at that time though, was pregnant with our first child and was just like, man, this is really busy. I did the farming with my family. I was doing the teaching and Sharp the builder was what the company was called. And so I entered into Ed Tech. I broke out of the classroom, did sales for ed tech, and then got recruited by a recruiter to recruit, which is a very complex sentence, but he said, Hey, I think you'd be pretty good at this and the recruiting thing and would you want to come do it? And at that time I didn't know much about it and the rest is history. It's been an awesome career thus far and something I'm looking forward to staying in for a really long time.

DaNadia Johnson (02:22):

Awesome. So how long have you been recruiting? I'm just curious.

Spencer Sharp (02:25):

Yeah, definitely. So I'm going on about two years now here at Field Pros. Started as kind of someone that just did recruiting, just myself. Now I'm kind of building out my own team just because busy enough, as you guys have seen, the EdTech industry has blown up. It's crazy. And it's kind of niched down to a certain point where we only do EdTech recruiting at Field Pros. Most of us are former teachers or worked in EdTech, so we kind of know this space and are super passionate about it.

DaNadia Johnson (02:53):

That's awesome. Yeah, because getting into EdTech now is a completely different ball game than it was a few, even when I moved into EdTech in 2021. And it's completely getting a job in EdTech then was completely different than it is now. But can you kind of share some key qualities or skills you prioritize when we're recruiting candidates? So thinking about candidates moving into the ed tech realm, what are some key qualities and skills that you are looking for in candidates? Yeah,

Spencer Sharp (03:27):

That's a great question. And I think it really depends overall maybe on the company and the structure and the responsibilities of the person. But I really think you can almost create a little subset of things that all those people need in ed tech. And so I think number one, it's the ability and you guys being former teachers a little bit know kind of this world, you got to be able to pivot, which is most teachers have to do all the time and inside of education

DaNadia Johnson (03:54):

Because

Spencer Sharp (03:55):

Most of these companies that are willing to take on former educators usually want someone that understands their space and are okay with doing many things. Maybe they're doing a little bit of sales, a little bit of implementation, a little bit of customer success. So I think that's the first big one. Number two, I think it's the confidence to say, Hey, I've been a teacher. I understand that I did really well at this, but I know I can do this job and I've actually kind of done it when I was a teacher, but here's what it looked like. It just looked different. Someone that can make that transition in conversations when they're having interviews is someone who's going to stick somewhere. It's just that simple. And then I think the third thing that we normally see is what I would call some of these soft skills. So when I was teaching, I developed a lot of soft skills of creating my own podcasts, doing my own marketing, going out and selling myself to different districts on doing PDs. And so I think it was little things like that that kind of set me apart from the market from everyone else that might've been there. So I think that those are kind of the three that I would say overall are the qualities I'm really looking at. And I think companies really desire. I

DaNadia Johnson (05:04):

Love that. Would you say that most of the ed tech companies are looking for former educators? I feel like I've found that a little bit, but especially those that are centered around K 12 education.

Spencer Sharp (05:17):

Yeah, the short answer is yes, But I think it's A certain

(05:21):

Subset of companies. You're going to have your companies that I'm working with and they're a client of mine, they might say, Hey, well I want a former teacher, but I want 'em to have two or three years experience. And that might be a mid to senior level role, but a lot of what I would call those maybe entry level or even some mid, they're willing to take on someone that's maybe leaving the classroom that has done something really dynamic, especially if it's really niched down. I have a company that deals with STEM well, they were okay with interviewing a lot of STEM coordinators rather than maybe some people that had experience at a similar company. They were like, they just get it. They've been in the class more recently. Things have changed.

DaNadia Johnson (06:03):

So I

Spencer Sharp (06:04):

Think the short answer is yes, but it kind is complicated in the sense that depends on the company's size and responsibilities. That

DaNadia Johnson (06:12):

Makes sense.

Holly Owens (06:13):

Yeah, that definitely makes sense too. And I feel like you're saying some of those soft skills, those were really important and amongst, we get asked a lot about instructional design rules, but I feel like ed tech and instructional design really have a lot of overlap when it comes to certain

Spencer Sharp (06:29):

Situations depending on what you do in the ed tech industry. So

Holly Owens (06:33):

Translating what lesson planning is or curriculum planning is to project management, I mean, you're not going to come in lesson planning and planning a unit and then know how to project manage, stay in the corporate space,

Spencer Sharp (06:45):

But

Holly Owens (06:45):

It's going to give you a good jumping off point.

Spencer Sharp (06:47):

Yeah, Definitely. And I think something you said too that I really try to get people to think really outside the box. Everyone wants to do instructional design. It seems like everybody, you know what I mean? And

(06:59):

It's funny enough, that's what I wanted do. I got my master's in that and that was kind of my plan. And then I realized even after my master's and when I worked for my first EdTech company before I was at Field Pros, I'm like, I actually kind of did quite a bit of sales and I kind have that personality and someone might be kind of thinking the same thing. So I think it's good to get your name out there, talk to people on LinkedIn that are doing marketing, customer success, project management. Maybe they're doing backend statistical type of work for companies and they're doing something maybe that's just a little bit odd that you could fit into. So I think it's good to maybe think outside of the box of just your norm one role that a teacher can do because teachers do still do so much in their roles. I remember when I was in the classroom, I'm like, I feel like I've never worked this hard in my life for everything I got to do and I got

Holly Owens (07:54):

To

Spencer Sharp (07:55):

Wear many hats. And so I think those many hats translate to many different opportunities in the ed tech world.

Holly Owens (08:01):

Absolutely. Marketing is a huge piece. It's weird. It's a huge piece of what we do as instructional designers. We're marketing ourselves our products and stuff. And especially doing a podcast, you turn into a marketer really fast. Oh

DaNadia Johnson (08:14):

Yeah,

Holly Owens (08:17):

You're a salesperson and a marketer for sure. I

DaNadia Johnson (08:20):

Mean, I Consider that when you're trying to sell yourself for a job, you kind of have to learn how to sell something. I kind of tapped into my marketing era when I was looking for a job because I kind had to build my own brand rebrand and who I was and what I had to offer and position my skills in a different way because transferable skills, we all had them, but they're used in different contexts. So you have to be able to translate that. And I even think too to what you're saying, and this is something I tell people all the time,

Spencer Sharp (08:55):

If you're looking to leave the classroom, even if you're in ed tech and you're in one position, you're wanting to go to another position, it's about marketing yourself and marketing yourself differently. Even when I was leaving the classroom the way I got so many interviews, but given Nadia said it was a different time, so I was able to get a lot of interviews, it's a little bit tougher now. I sent out a bunch of little videos to different leaders just like, Hey, my name's Spencer. Here's my background, here's what I've done and here's why I know I would be a good fit. I'd love to talk. So many people responded like, oh, this is so much different than getting a resume, looking at the resume and just being like, oh, there's Spencer. It kind of puts your name to the top. So I think it's marketing yourself differently than the rest of the market to make yourself appear different. Even when I'm working with candidates, with clients, it's like, Hey, how can we make yourself appear differently? What kind of questions can we ask in interviews or different fun things we can do? At the end of the day, there's many people that could do one job that's out there given kind of landscape, but the person they're going to choose is the person that maybe is going to set themselves apart and they want to work with the most.

DaNadia Johnson (10:00):

Absolutely. Yep.

Holly Owens (10:02):

That's one of the things I told people is they're like, how do I stand out as record a video about yourself?

Spencer Sharp (10:06):

Yep,

Holly Owens (10:07):

Record a video and talk about yourself. I need to do that.

Spencer Sharp (10:11):

I tell other people to do it, but I'll take my own advice.

Holly Owens (10:15):

I

DaNadia Johnson (10:15):

Know

Holly Owens (10:17):

Maybe I should be a recruiter. So when it comes to some of the latest trends in things that are happening in the landscape of EdTech, like any advancements and stuff, I know we're getting a lot of AI pushed at us recently. How do you stay informed about what's happening and how does this inform your recruitment strategies and what you do when you're looking for people to fill these types of roles?

Spencer Sharp (10:44):

Yeah, I think one of the things we do different at Fuel Pros being, I mean there's not a lot of specific just ed tech recruiting firms. Usually this is a branch of a large company, so we really try to keep our finger on the pulse of things by just chatting with different leaders, say, Hey, what are you guys doing and why is it different for this space? And I think all that information we're getting to your point helps us say, okay, these are the kind of companies we want to work with. We want to work with the best of the best, and we want to work with the companies that are cutting edge, like AI for example. There's a lot of companies that are going to be just your strictly AI companies, but then there's going to be your companies that have maybe a little AI component.

(11:22):

What's the best way to approach that? What is funding going to look like for it? What makes it more sound? What are some troubles people are having or things they're running into? So it's kind of looking at it from a lens of a recruiter, if you will, or just a third party to say, okay, what's great about it? What needs improved? And how do we know this is going to be a long sustainable fit? Because I talk to people all the time that three years ago they were at a company and it was great. That company was super hot. Maybe that product died down because someone to the market or maybe they got acquired and they're doing rifts and other things of that nature. And so I think that's a big part of it is just keeping our fingers on the pulse and keeping people informed as best we can so that they make the best decisions. Some of the most stressful things in your life are moving and a job changer growing a family, they say. And so I take it pretty serious as a recruiter to say, Hey, I want to make sure things are a good fit and they make sense for people. And so gathering that knowledge really helps that I think.

Holly Owens (12:24):

Yeah, I posted something maybe a little jaded on LinkedIn the other day about a dream job, how dream and job might not go in the same sentence. I feel like we try to perpetuate this fantasy of and romanticize having a job, especially in our capitalistic culture. And I think one of the things what you're saying is really resonating with me, the reality of the situation is we're doing other things outside in life besides just having a job. So just that idea of the dream role or just a role where you feel like you can advance yourself or you can develop your skills. I find that in roles where I'm really passionate about, I become super dedicated to that role. But in other times I just get really, if I don't love it, I get apathetic, I get lazy or unmotivated. So having that conversation with yourself, and I feel like that's where a recruiter really, the support of a recruiter is really necessary. I'm sure you become a therapist at certain points

Spencer Sharp (13:23):

Too with

Holly Owens (13:27):

People when you're trying to find these roles and they really turn to you to be like, you're the person, you're like the agent for the sports, the athlete trying to find the role or the contract that they're going to get. They're going to land to get whatever bonus to make millions of dollars.

Spencer Sharp (13:44):

Yeah, no, definitely. And I think it's very smart to look at it from that lens too of, Hey, at the end of the day, you want something you're passionate about, but a job is a job and you want to be passionate and you want to be able to pour your heart into it, but not so much that it takes up just your whole self. And a lot of people do that. I'm guilty of doing it kind of like you even said. But yeah, I become a therapist in some different ways, but sometimes I just like to be the voice of reason to tell people like, Hey, here's what I'm hearing about what is going on with this kind of company inside of EdTech. I would love just to tell you more, connect you with people. And a lot of times with a big network any recruiter has, I'm able just to connect people with anyone so they can make a sound decision. At the end of the day, I want to do what's right by people. That's kind of our motto here at Field Pros is always do the right thing. And so we do that by lending that knowledge and being kind of that shoulder to talk to for people too. So yeah, it's different in that sense. When I first brought this on, I didn't think I would be that as much, but

Holly Owens (14:52):

I've grown to really like it because then you grow really close with people and they become more

Spencer Sharp (14:57):

Friends and family than anything with people you work with, which I think is cool.

Holly Owens (15:02):

Yeah, I love that aspect of it too. Yeah.

Spencer Sharp (15:05):

I

DaNadia Johnson (15:05):

Also feel like there's so much going on LinkedIn now, especially in this job market. It is something serious and you have job seekers having this feeling toward recruiters and recruiters trying to defend themselves and explain the process is not as easy as you think it is. So what challenges do you commonly encounter when recruiting for ed tech positions? Because I'm sure there's kind of many out there and how do you address those? Because I think a lot of job seekers don't really think about the whole process, the whole recruiting process. Sometimes we just get so caught up in wanting to move through the process that we forget that there's a lot of moving parts when it comes to recruiting for positions.

Spencer Sharp (15:54):

And so I love that question because a lot of people don't ask me that sometimes, like you say, get some of the conversations going on LinkedIn, but unfortunately there's just things when you're a third party recruiter that are out of your hands. I've told people the story of, I remember one of the first companies I worked with when I came on two years ago, I thought this candidate was the perfect fit. I put them forth and we usually present two or three people. Well, they went silent on the one person that I really liked, but then moved other people forward, didn't give me feedback, and then eventually was like, okay, we're not moving forward with them and kind of strung that person out in a way. And so I think the tough part of what we do, to put it simply, it's like you're marrying two people that maybe just met and really making sure they hit it off though. Anyways,

DaNadia Johnson (16:43):

It's

Holly Owens (16:44):

Setting up Blinding

DaNadia Johnson (16:45):

Mountain. Exactly. And I always kind of

Spencer Sharp (16:49):

Joke because when I first started doing this, my wife, she kind of didn't understand exactly, and I'm like, it's kind of these different shows. She really likes Love is Blind

DaNadia Johnson (16:59):

Bachelor, all these shows. I don't like those as much she does, but I'm like, that's kind of what we do as recruiters. We are trying to make that work and sometimes it isn't going to work for one party and not the other.

Spencer Sharp (17:10):

So the tough part is balancing that relationship all the way up to the end and hopefully, obviously there's an offer, but that whole process of bringing someone on, telling them about the interview process, letting 'em know what that looks like, all that kind of stuff is very tough in a way that people don't understand because you don't normally see that from someone that doesn't have a recruiter. They might just have someone that sends a general email, whereas I'm calling someone up like, Hey, they're going to pass on you and here's why, but I'd love to stay in contact. I think you're a great candidate and I think you're going to be the right fit at the right company. So I think it's having those relationships and trying to bring two parties to the end, that is a lot tougher than it sounds as you're saying it out loud. There's been times where I've had a company and a candidate really trying to figure out what the final step's going to look like and signing, and it takes sometimes two or three weeks when you feel like that should take a week maybe. So I think it's that kind of realization maybe that people don't realize on LinkedIn that I've kind of noticed. But from the other side of things too, I always tell people I get where candidates are coming from. There's companies sometimes that don't give good feedback, and that's obviously not Or

Holly Owens (18:23):

Any at all

Spencer Sharp (18:24):

Or any at all. We're

Holly Owens (18:25):

Not going to give you any feedback.

Spencer Sharp (18:27):

They're just

Holly Owens (18:28):

Going to send a decline

Spencer Sharp (18:30):

The general email that 20 people got. And so I think that's tough. And I've had companies where you really reach out and you say, Hey, we really need feedback, and they might not give you really sound feedback. And I tell people at the end of the day, sometimes I think that's because maybe they realize you were a really good fit, but maybe they just had someone farther along. Timing is everything too. So I think it's a little bit of all that kind of stuff that we see as recruiters kind of in a process.

Holly Owens (19:03):

One of the things I was thinking about when you were saying that is the rejection, it seems so impersonal these days it seems like, and I'll say that I've done some applying recently just seeing what's out there, and we talked to jobs a lot, so I want to see how things go if what I'm saying is actually true, I want to test my experiment, but honestly it feels like they're just putting in your name. And just like we reject you and Nadia and myself, we're applying the roles. I have almost 20 years of experience in instructional design and I'm getting a no thanks, but no thanks email,

Spencer Sharp (19:47):

Right? Yeah.

(19:52):

For me, I think that's one thing that it's not fun for companies to do. So some companies view it as we'll, just won't do it. And this week I had to call two or three people for an opportunity. It was for a VP of sales and they weren't moving 'em forward, and the kind of feedback was they just didn't have as much experience as everyone else, which is an unfortunate conversation. It's nothing you can help. And then we kind of had the discussion of what was in the market, some other people I could connect them with. And so I think when people use someone like Field Pros, the nice part is I can call someone up and say, Hey, it's unfortunate, but I want to be real with you. I hate when you're not able to get feedback. I'd rather you get some feedback. Even if the feedback we have right now is not the best feedback, we can always try to get more too. Even a candidate last week, she had experience with CORE and they wanted more supplemental, and I was like, it's unfortunate that's not great feedback, but at least we're getting a little bit. I'll dig more and we're going to figure out what's the next step for you.

Holly Owens (20:57):

I love that. And I think where I was going with that on the other side of that is how can companies do better with that? So from a recruiting perspective, and I understand they get hundreds and thousands of applicants,

DaNadia Johnson (21:08):

All

Holly Owens (21:09):

That stuff, but huh? I

DaNadia Johnson (21:12):

Say I think that's truly what it is. A lot of them are doing this on their own. A lot of them are not partnering with recruiters. So I feel like they're trying to respond to hundreds and thousands of applications and just don't have the capacity.

Holly Owens (21:27):

So one thing they could do is sign up to work with you. That's

Spencer Sharp (21:30):

The number one. Number two,

Holly Owens (21:33):

Number two is what are number two and three, what can they do to do this better and treat us humans? We're not just coming in here on an assembly line or we're just minions

Spencer Sharp (21:46):

And

Holly Owens (21:46):

Things like that. A lot of LinkedIn posts about getting rejection, getting rejection.

Spencer Sharp (21:52):

I think having a sound process, a lot of companies, even if maybe they don't use our services, they'll meet with me just to figure out what things should look like for them. And I'm like, man, just having different processes in place. Oh, we're going to, let's say they get 50 people that apply and they interview five of 'em, making sure there's a process for those five people from the beginning to the end to if they reject them Y and giving feedback, not necessarily your John Doe email of like, Hey, sorry. It's having that detail in there to say, Hey, we really enjoyed you X, Y, and Z, but here's why we think we're passing at this time. So I think it's having a good process is kind of what we harp to companies and especially with the feedback portion of it all. And then I think third, it's just using the resources you have internally to have someone that has to make those calls or produce those emails that are a little bit less just auto generated, doesn't feel good when you spent time interviewing with someone for weeks on end and they've kind of strung you out, and then you get that general email.

(23:06):

I've been there. I remember when I was first getting into EdTech, I spent a couple of weeks with a company just to get a very general email. And that stung, it really did. And then there was another company I interviewed with where it was very personalized. They said, oh, we really liked you, Spencer just didn't love the experience at this time. There was someone stronger in the pipeline. And I emailed 'em back and said, I get it. That makes 100% sense to me. And they said, Hey, we would love to stay in contact. And I still talk to that company to this day, and they're actually one of my clients, funny enough. And so it kind of goes full circle if people just do the right thing. I think at the end of the day,

Holly Owens (23:43):

Yeah, I agree with you. And think it's just a matter of treating people with respect and humans and valuing their time. I mean, we understand that money's being spent. We understand there are things that are happening in the background, but I feel like it also says a lot about the company culture as well and how they treat that situation. So when people ask me for like, well, I got this rejection room, or I got this, or this is happening in the stages of the interview, Nadia, tell me to shut up loving this episode, and you brought Spencer on. But yeah, I don't know where I was going with that. It really disappoints me when I hear about some people's experiences and people

Spencer Sharp (24:29):

Can do better. They Can do better. And honestly too, one thing I tell people, just because ed tech is, I always kind of word it funny, it's small, but it's big. There's a lot of maybe companies, but everyone kind of knows one another. It's not a good look if maybe you don't have a great process. I remember I got a call a couple months from someone, they're like, Hey, I declined this job from so-and-So they had 22 interviews. I'm like 22, that's way too many. They should have a defined process of three to five is what we recommend. Was it

Holly Owens (25:01):

Only 22 rounds?

DaNadia Johnson (25:02):

One person?

Spencer Sharp (25:03):

Yes, one person. And there's times where there's just things like that you hear and you're like, that's just not going to be a good look. And it's the same thing with other stuff. And so I think it's having those processes says a lot about the whole company culture. People constantly ask me, oh, what is the company culture here versus here? I was like, you have conversations you can usually tell pretty quickly, even

Holly Owens (25:29):

Absolutely

Spencer Sharp (25:31):

Right away, oh, this was a great place to be. Or you might come back and say, oh my gosh, I can't believe they said that. Or I can't believe this process looks like this for them, or I can't believe they're doing this. And on the other end of that, it's like, that might work for somebody and that might be great for somebody, but it ain't for me. And so that's kind of the nice part about the pond that we all live in here. With Ed tech, it's kind of dynamic and the fact that there's so many different ways you can approach it. And so many different companies,

DaNadia Johnson (25:59):

I think companies have especially, they have to be really careful with that because I've had some really interesting experiences with interviews and feedback and all of that. And now those companies I will never apply to again, I will never want to do any type of business with. And I think that's kind of how a lot of job seekers feel right now. At the point of you revealed yourself, you revealed how you would operate, and I actually don't want to work for you now of this experience I've had. So I think I, that is probably the best advice is have a real process. I

Spencer Sharp (26:37):

Think

DaNadia Johnson (26:37):

Sometimes a lot of companies and they're just winging it. I've been there before, especially with an EdTech startup. Yeah.

Spencer Sharp (26:48):

And having that process. And that's why anytime people meet with me, they're like, well, what do you see from some of your clients? I was like, I can share that interview process with you. Here's what they do and here's worked for them and here's what helped them grow from a very small team to a very large team. And I think people don't use each other enough in EdTech. And EdTech is some of the nicest people ever. The majority of 'em are former teachers, and so they're always willing to help one another. So it's use one another to create a really good process that's going to leave your higher candidates really happy, but more importantly, the people you passed on happy as well to be like, man, if something did open up there, I would still want to go there. I work with a couple of companies that are, that people that turn away, they turn away, they're like, Hey, if anything ever comes back up there, let me know because I loved all the conversations. I loved the people and how they approach this whole process. So I think that says a lot if you have that in place.

DaNadia Johnson (27:41):

Absolutely. I

Holly Owens (27:43):

Love the companies and their job description. They list what the process is, how many rounds it's going to

DaNadia Johnson (27:48):

Be.

Holly Owens (27:49):

I love that transparency because it lessens the anxiety, it lessens the expectation and the anticipation of what's going to be happening next. Love companies that do that along

DaNadia Johnson (28:01):

With the

Holly Owens (28:02):

Salary. I

DaNadia Johnson (28:02):

Love that information,

Spencer Sharp (28:06):

Which in some states it's required to list the

(28:10):

Salary, and I think it'll get to the point where eventually it'll be all states as well. And I think even too from that salary standpoint of things, I always think it's kind of smart. If companies have someone like us, I think it's good just to ask people what would it take in order for you to make a change? Just to see where they're thinking. And like I said, again, marrying two unlike things to see does your expectations and their expectations match. I think that's a nice part about having a recruiter sometimes and getting those industry averages. They are ever changing with different jobs we see in the market. That's one thing I get pinged a lot from teachers that are current or maybe former teachers or people in the market. They're like, Hey, am I being underpaid or am I being overpaid? I have no idea. Oh God, if we're overpaid, teachers are never overpaid. Well, No,

Holly Owens (29:06):

I'm

Spencer Sharp (29:07):

Saying Other EdTech

Holly Owens (29:08):

People,

Spencer Sharp (29:10):

Companies, especially Startups. Yeah. Yeah.

Holly Owens (29:15):

I would never say the word overpay to my entire career, I'm sure.

Spencer Sharp (29:19):

Oh, yeah.

(29:21):

It's funny because it's very rare for it to be that way, but I had a conversation with someone a couple of weeks ago where they're like, yeah, here's kind of my base at this company and everything else, and I feel overpaid. And I'm like, I've never heard anyone say that necessarily. It's very rare. But a lot of companies, we work with them on that kind of stuff. We are telling them what the industry average looks like, what you need to do to get the kind of talent you want. And I think that's one of the other challenges is some companies, they want that unicorn profile. Well, unicorn profile is going to look very different. It might cost more in this area versus this area depending on where people live.

DaNadia Johnson (29:59):

Unicorn profile deserves unicorn money, not a range of 50,000 to 150,000. That does not

Spencer Sharp (30:08):

Give us

DaNadia Johnson (30:08):

Any clue as to what you're looking for. Right,

Spencer Sharp (30:14):

Exactly. That's a good way

Holly Owens (30:16):

To put

Spencer Sharp (30:16):

It. I like, yeah, and I would say too, it's just

Holly Owens (30:21):

People lowball themselves far too often. They're worth, they absolutely do. So speaking of unicorns, we get a lot of questions about from people, especially when we do different webinars and stuff about the technical expertise of the role and what you need to know. What technologies do you need to know, especially in instructional design or ed tech. So how do you evaluate a candidate's potential based on those things? What are you looking for? And amongst that, what about that along with the education principles that they bring into the situation? So technical stuff, and then

Spencer Sharp (30:57):

Of course,

Holly Owens (30:57):

Knowing the theories and all the educational stuff that they need to be successful in the role.

Spencer Sharp (31:02):

Right. That's a great question. And I think it's really just having that intake form where usually I'll gather a resume from them. I was like, oh, you are certified and let's say in this scenario for instructional design, you have a certificate with Canva and you do Canva and you are able to design in there. Tell me what that's looked like in your career. What are some projects you can show me? What are some things you've done vice versa with anything a company needs? They usually tell us beforehand. So when I'm working with a client, maybe they're like, Hey, our product is math common core driven. We want someone that understands the math common core space for open territory. So then I'm asking them about those different kinds of needs. And so basically as a recruiter, I always kind of think of it, I try to think of it simple, and it's probably more in my teacher mind.

(31:53):

I'll say, Hey, these are kind of the four boxes that are important to you. And I'll review those with the client and then I'll go back to the candidates and I'll say, Hey, how do you match these boxes? And so I think that's kind of what I usually do is kind of test how well they do some of those things just by asking more and more questions. As recruiters, we're good storytellers and we're great at asking questions. So any question that kind of hits my mind to say, Hey, how good are you at using Canva, Photoshop, HubSpot, maybe Slack, if a company's really into that, or something of that nature. Salesforce, because being able to ramp up quickly is very important to most companies.

DaNadia Johnson (32:31):

That's interesting insight. So to close, I'm sure our audience wants to know, what advice do you have for individuals who want to move into the EdTech space or advance their career in the EdTech space?

Spencer Sharp (32:49):

Yeah, I get asked that question a lot and I've answered it probably 10 different ways. Funny Enough, it's different every time. Yeah, I put a new flavor on it, a lot of different ways you can approach it. But if I could sum 'em all up into one, I think if you're looking to make a change and you're seeking maybe some different skills that we talked about, it's just getting your name out there. You never know what a conversation is going to entail, whether it be with LinkedIn connections or social media and where it's going to go. I never thought I would necessarily be where I am today and maybe have build up some different skills that I didn't necessarily learn from my training in college, but learned myself. So I think it's just never backing down from something and having the confidence to say, I can do this and I know I can do it really well. I

Holly Owens (33:35):

Love that. And you've mentioned LinkedIn more than once, more than twice, more than three times as being out there on LinkedIn world, that confidence is key. Just knowing your skills. And I tell people if they're looking to transition roles, they need to, in their current role, get as much professional development from that current role as possible. Yes. So are there ways in which they can take certain courses that the company will pay for? Do they have free LinkedIn learning courses? Can you go sign up for Udemy or something like that? Get as much professional development as you can internally because you're aware that you're transitioning roles and you can put that information on your resume that you've done this with said company. And also it looks good too if you end up deciding to stay there that you are showing you're proactive around wanting to be professionally developed.

DaNadia Johnson (34:26):

Yeah,

Spencer Sharp (34:26):

No, I think that's, you hit the nail on the head there it is. Doing all that extra stuff. And worst case scenario is you have it in your back pocket and you have it on your resume, get on there. Linkedin has free courses, like crazy people offer free courses on LinkedIn. Just kind of promo for whatever they might do and kind of getting yourself plugged into that network's just going to allow you to get all that kind of PD and kind of grow in awesome ways.

DaNadia Johnson (34:49):

There's even awesome webinars out there. So

Holly Owens (34:52):

Yeah, there's some pretty awesome webinars that people do for free and dedicate their time. Spencer, we could talk to you for another hour and I want

Spencer Sharp (35:02):

To,

Holly Owens (35:02):

But we won't take, we're going to have to do a follow up episode.

Spencer Sharp (35:07):

This was amazing.

Holly Owens (35:08):

We so appreciate your time and I know our audience is going to love this episode, especially those looking into going into the ed tech industry. And we're going to have all the information in the show notes about where they can reach you, where companies can reach out to work with you so that they can contact you and get in touch, especially looking for a job in ed tech interview. So thank you so much. No

Spencer Sharp (35:29):

Problem. Thank you guys for having me. Appreciate it. Oops.