99: Inside the Leadership Lab: Unlocking the Secrets of L&D Leadership with Rachel Schell

Holly Owens (00:02):

Hello everyone, and welcome to another amazing episode of Edup Ed Tech. My name is Holly Owens

Nadia Johnson (00:10):

And My name is Nadia Johnson, and we're your hosts,

Holly Owens (00:13):

And we're super pumped today because we have Rachel Shell, she's the founder of the Emerging Leaders in Ellen D on the show. So welcome, Rachel.

Rachel Schell (00:23):

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. I'm a big fan of y'all's, so dream come true. Finally getting to do this. Yeah.

Holly Owens (00:32):

Well, thanks for listening and being a guest and a listener. We truly appreciate that. Before we jump into everything, emerging leaders in l and d, we want, and for those of you who don't know, l and d stands for learning and development. I don't want to assume that the audience knows what that means. Yes, I did have

Rachel Schell (00:51):

Someone message me one time. They're like, I'm into the healthcare space. Emerging leaders and labor and delivery. No, not quite. No, but that would be great.

Holly Owens (01:01):

Yeah. Yeah. So there might be some confusion acronym too. It is.

Nadia Johnson (01:06):

Yeah.

Holly Owens (01:07):

I never thought of that. I thought of that.

Rachel Schell (01:12):

Oh goodness. Well, before we get into not labor and delivery, learning and development,

Nadia Johnson (01:17):

Tell

Holly Owens (01:18):

Us about your journey, Rachel, into this space. Start to finish how you came to where you are today.

Rachel Schell (01:23):

Oh my gosh. Well, first of all, I'm old, so that's going to take a while, but here we go. I like to say I was one of the original transitioning teachers before it was cool. I started in higher education, so back in 2008, I was teaching at a local university and we had just gotten this fancy new learning management system called Blackboard, and I was like, well, this is

Holly Owens (01:58):

Something

Rachel Schell (01:58):

I like this. And I realized as a teacher, I was like, I can really do a lot with my students because I was teaching back before I got into this, I was in architecture and design, and that's what I was teaching in higher education was art courses, architecture design courses. And so I was like, we do a lot of project-based work, so we could do so much more by utilizing this learning management system. And so I went through all the training they offered at the university, and then I went out on YouTube, which was baby YouTube back in 2008 and was learning all the different things that I could about it. And then I kind of figured out this whole flipped classroom idea and totally embraced it. And I did that with my students for the entire time that I've taught in higher. So I learned instructional design basically and utilized Blackboard and did that with my students.

(03:10):

During that time, I got my first master's degree and it was in family and consumer sciences, and part of that was a teaching degree, so I had to have that to continue teaching in higher ed. But halfway through that degree, I was like, I'm loving this instructional design thing. I'm loving this whole online learning. This is the future. And so I went to my advisor and she was like, well, this isn't like a bachelor's. If you want to start over and do the instructional design degree, you can't just switch your major. You have to start over. I was like, okay. I finished that family and consumer sciences degree taught, and then in 2012 I went and got my second master's degree, and that one is in instructional design and technology from Southern New Hampshire University. And so that program completely changed my world. The first assignment in the first class we had was to do an audit of different jobs and skills, and when I was doing that, I found a position for an instructional designer with the Arkansas Department of Education, and I was like, well, these are all the skills and all this. And I was like, okay, well, I can do, I've done that. I've got experience in that, and I've done that. So I applied and I got the position and it ended up being amazing. It was so much more than instructional. So you found the job in your class? I found the job as my first assignment in the class in my second.

Holly Owens (04:43):

And you got the job? And I

Rachel Schell (04:44):

Got the job, yes. I actually used, part of that is we had to, what's it called? What do they call it at the end? What's the big project that you have to do in a master's degree? Oh, gosh. You either write a thesis or you do capstone. A capstone, yeah.

Holly Owens (05:03):

Not yet. Yeah, a capstone.

Nadia Johnson (05:05):

I'm kind of going through that now. Yes.

Rachel Schell (05:08):

So we had to do a capstone and we had to do something that was instructional design based, and mine was leadership development, instructional design, but it had to be a company based in Arkansas. And so I chose Walmart, but then the job I was doing actually became part of it. It just could not have been the stars aligned any better. It was an awesome experience. So yeah, that's how I got my second master's. Got into my first real instructional design job with that title, traveled around the state of Arkansas teaching teachers how to adopt education, I'm sorry, how to adopt technology into education. I actually taught them how to up some of the first online courses being used in public education in Arkansas. We taught blended learning. So I am blended learning certified under Heather Staker, who wrote the book on it and did that for a long time, from 2014 all the way up to 2018. It was awesome. I say a long time. That's a long time in EdTech world,

(06:26):

But it was awesome. I actually got to be a part of laws that were passed in Arkansas that require all high school students have an online course by the time they graduate, oversaw and was the design coach for the Arkansas Virtual High School, and made sure that the courses we were putting out there for students online courses were more than just a book online. It was actual real engaging online work. Anyway, it was so great. And then about 2018, I was like, I love this work, but I want to do more and I'm ready to get away from the politics. And I'm sorry, but the politics and education, they're there. And it just kind of started weighing on me and I was like, all right, I'm ready to do something else. And so in 2018, January 1st, 2018, I started r a s personalized solutions and started doing design consulting. I was really scared when I first started on New Year's Day when I first started my business. And so I was like, I'm only going to consult people on how to design really good PowerPoints. And that lasted two months. And then I was like, I got to do instructional design. I can't just tell people how to design PowerPoints. So yeah, I started consulting and that has led to me working with major organizations around the world, the Cove Training Institute, the International Coaching Federation, Ford. I do work from them from time to time. Who else?

(08:11):

I could go on and on. Yeah, so many large companies, so many great opportunities. But I'd done that since 2018. But then in August of 2022, I was like, again, I was like, all right, this is awesome work, but I don't feel like there's anybody I can kind of share where I'm at in this journey with. And so I started looking and talked to Tim Slade, and I was like, Tim, you're just doing so much great work. I need a network that I can go and talk about these emerging leadership things that I'm seeing. And he was like, yeah. He was like, it would be great if there was something out there like that. I told my best friend Amanda, the same thing, and she said, well, why don't you just start your own network? And so I did the Emerging Leaders in Learning and Development, and that started in August of 2022. And here we are a little more than a year later. We offer free membership, and we have over 550 members right now. And each month we have a LinkedIn Live where we talk about something related to learning and development leadership, and we just try to help L and D professionals figure out the steps they take to take that leap to leadership. So that kind of gives us to where I am now. Here we are.

Nadia Johnson (09:45):

That's a

Holly Owens (09:45):

Beautiful,

Nadia Johnson (09:46):

I love hearing how kind of people move into this space. I think everybody's story is unique. Mine definitely was kind of unique, so I love hearing those stories. So now that you've told us about your great journey into l and d, can you tell us more about who maybe inspired you along the way as you moved into these different milestones moving into L and d?

Rachel Schell (10:12):

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, first of all, so many great educators along the way. Teachers that taught me in my graduate programs, I guess even before that, teachers in my undergrad, I'm from southern Mississippi originally, and I tell people this all the time, but when I was in second grade, I was diagnosed with a D, d and dyslexia. So a lot to overcome there. I was not the best student. I was a B, sometimes C student, and school was just really difficult for me because I had such a hard time focusing. But when I got into college and I started taking more of those upper level courses, and then when I got into my graduate programs and we were really focused on solving real world problems, oh man, everything just clicked for me. And that's when I realized that adult learning was just such a calling. That's always been a calling for me, and so many instructors that helped me along the way. So many that knew that I was struggling with taking tests. I'm a horrible test taker,

Holly Owens (11:32):

And

Rachel Schell (11:32):

So many of 'em would

Holly Owens (11:33):

Come back.

Rachel Schell (11:33):

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I hope you had the same experience I did where you had instructors step in and say, maybe instead of doing a test, let's do a project or something like that. No, no.

Nadia Johnson (11:47):

Fortunately, no.

Holly Owens (11:49):

I wish. I mean, college was A challenge finally, When you're talking about college and a light bulb finally went off with the higher order thinking skills. But no,

Rachel Schell (11:59):

Yeah, I feel like

Nadia Johnson (12:01):

Instructors are getting a little bit better with that nowadays. But it was one, yeah, it was always tests. Well, that's what drove me to working with the Arkansas Department of Education

Rachel Schell (12:14):

Is we were doing blended learning, which is a real emphasis on technology in the classroom, but all of that was to lead to personalized learning. And that has always had a special place in my heart because it really is all about creating learning experiences that are more tailored to a student and their needs. And I know I would've benefited from that when I was going through school along my corporate journey. Since 2018, I would say Amanda Perry, my best friend, she has always been the one who has said, you can do it. She's also an instructional designer and does amazing things. She and I work together in the state of Arkansas on this personalized journey pathway in helping teachers, but also Amber Carlson Hayes, she's this amazing business owner, Archway Solutions. She has really created this space in the healthcare industry around learning and development, and she really emphasizes leadership, and it's phenomenal. It's amazing the work that she's doing, and I've learned so much from her. I could go on and on, but

Holly Owens (13:35):

Yeah, I see that there's a lot of people, and it's hard to answer this question too, because a lot of people at different points in your life inspire you at that time, what you're doing. And of course, we want to shout them all out for the support that they gave. But what I really want to know is from you and your travels and all the things that you've experienced up to this point, how would you personally define learning and development? What is it? Tell us about it.

Rachel Schell (14:02):

Yeah, so I've been fortunate enough to be in higher education, K 12 education, K 12 public education, and on the corporate side and in that corporate side, working with nonprofits. So I feel like I've seen a little bit of everybody. And the one thing that I think is the thread to successful learning and development are those designers and developers who really do understand that there is a learner on the other side of that training. And that learner has their own motivations. They have their own challenges, and they are, there's so much that they're bringing to the table, and it's our job to cut through all the noise to help them achieve these outcomes. And the people who do it well see it as you have a problem to solve, and I'm going to give you the tools to help you solve. I'm not going to solve it for you. I'm going to give you the tools that's going to help you be successful. I don't care what industry and when you look at learning and development that way, you can't help but be successful. I

Holly Owens (15:26):

Think that answer, that's good.

Rachel Schell (15:28):

I think

Holly Owens (15:28):

We get to, sometimes we get to, especially as instructional designers, we do get caught up in the design in the process of everything, but we are the ones usually who say, don't forget about the learner. This is going to be all fancy and nice, but is the learner going to like this, or is they going to be able to do what we need them to do?

Rachel Schell (15:49):

Exactly. And it goes a little bit deeper when I teach a whole framework around defining the problem, and I do want to say that the problem does start with the stakeholder. Good leadership recognizes there is a problem here that needs to be solved, and we're going to use training as the solution here. So a shout out to any leader that recognizes, let's solve this problem, let me bring the right team in to solve that problem. And then handing it off to a learning and design team that can take it and create an experience that does focus on solving the learner's problem. I mean, that's learning the R right there.

Holly Owens (16:42):

Absolutely. And I am experiencing this now. Sometimes stakeholders aren't, or smee aren't exactly clear what needs to be done, Right.

Rachel Schell (16:58):

So that's why I teach. Let go. Let me have it. Let me take it. Let me put something together for you. I'll present it and get your buy-in, but you know that we can do this. You brought us in here for a reason. Oh,

Holly Owens (17:21):

Naia, I think you're muted.

Nadia Johnson (17:24):

Oh, okay. Oops. Good. All right. So we're kind of interested to know a little bit more. I know I am still kind of doing, I did a little digging about emerging leaders and learning and development. So I'm interested to kind of know a little bit more about what you're doing within the education l and d space with emerging leaders in learning and development.

Rachel Schell (17:52):

Oh my gosh. I'm so glad you asked that. That is what I eat, sleep, and dream about all day every day. That's my love. So emerging leaders, we are a group of L and D professionals who are here to support one another as we take that leap to leadership. This group is really for anybody at any stage of their leadership journey. So if you are just thinking that you maybe one day might want to be a leader, this group is for you. But at the same time, we have chief learning officers in the emerging leaders group. So we really do have every level and every content that we put out there. I always say, if follows the three Ls, that's the name of our newsletter. It's the three Ls newsletter. And we learn together, we lead together and we leverage one another's strengths to become better leaders. I

Nadia Johnson (18:54):

Love that. Yeah.

Rachel Schell (18:56):

But we are, so when I started this little experience experiment about a month or a month, when I started this experiment about a year ago, I started it as a free group. And each month we just had a meetup. We were doing it over zoom at first because I was like, nobody's going to want to do this. Somebody's going to care about this. And I was very wrong. But we started by meeting on Zoom and we would have 10 people join and then 15 and then 25 and 35. And I decided that, okay, we're going to switch over to LinkedIn. Because a lot of the feedback I got was that it was just a little difficult to register and join through Zoom. So we have switched over to LinkedIn and it's been super successful, but every month we jump on and we talk about something that leaders need to know.

(19:57):

Now, I've kind of embraced that and dove all in. So I always go to the group, the emerging leaders, and I ask them, what are some of the things that you want to know in l and d leadership? And they've shared some amazing ideas with me. But the one question that really has set things off for me is one member asked, what are the skills I really need to know? If I'm going to get into leadership, what do I need to know? Well, I went to Google and I just typed in what are the skills I need to be an L and D leader? Oh my gosh, if you've not ever done that, get ready. 60 skills, at least 60 pop up. And it's so overwhelming. It's like, how does anybody become a leader? There's so much here that we have to learn. I thought I knew a lot, and I don't because there's so many skills here.

(20:59):

So that challenged me. I was like, okay, you can't ask a new leader to come in and I need you to focus on these 60 skills to get this position. So I was like, well, what are the essential skills? What is that? So I started by talking to Amanda. I always do. And actually Amber and I asked them both. I said, you're both leaders. You're in leadership positions in learning and development. I said, what would you consider to be the essential skills? And we talked about it a while, and they both said, well, have you, have you looked at the current job postings out there? Have you done an analysis of that? And I said, no, but that's a great idea. So that's what I did. I went out and I analyzed over like 53 learning and development jobs, and I wanted to focus on that emerging leader.

(21:55):

So I looked at manager, supervisor, director positions. I looked for low experience, like little to no experience as a leader. I wanted to see emerging leader, what are those essential skills? I narrowed it down to about 10 skills, brought it back to Amanda and Amber, and I said, these are the 10 skills I've found, but knowing what I know and being a leader in my space, I said, I think it's focused on these five skills. And they said, everybody said, yes, I agree, except for I think this one skill. So I said, okay. So I've gone out and I've interviewed 23 L and D leaders. I interviewed Holly actually, and I asked Holly, I said, here's what I've done, Holly. Here's the essential skills I've got. Do you agree with this? And the essential skills are process, project management, analysis, and communication. I'll let Holly talk about how that interview went.

Holly Owens (23:09):

Oh, yeah. I think we came up with, if I remember correctly, I'm trying to, I definitely was. As soon as you said project management, I was like, 100%. I think that's something that's missed even at the mid level. And people don't understand. You're not only the instructional designer and you might have a P M O team, great, that's managing the dates and things like that, but you're also managing the people and what everybody needs to do and what the action items are. And I understand that PMs do that, but that was one of the things that really resonated with me when you said that as the number two spot and definitely communication.

Rachel Schell (23:49):

Oh my goodness. So I have a graphic that I always share, and these are in order because of interviews with leaders like Holly. They have definitely helped me put this in the order. But we talk about process first because you have to know the steps you're going to take in order to teach someone else the steps to design and develop training. Right? A

Holly Owens (24:14):

Good teacher does that.

Rachel Schell (24:16):

They break

Holly Owens (24:16):

It down. That's

Rachel Schell (24:17):

Right. Yes. So it's basic. So you got to start with your process. I was talking to my good friend Veronica Dominguez, and she said, what's really interesting if you think about it process is task management, which you have to have. That's like a beginning leader trait. And she said, your next step is project management. And she says, that's your people management. And I was like, that's brilliant. I never thought of it that way, but it really is like your process is how you do it. And then project management is managing your people as they take those steps in your process. So then we go from there, we talk about analysis being important because it's how you start a project. Then you take information from your analysis and informal data to make data-driven decision making or data-driven decisions. And then communication wraps around all of those elements, because communication is the thread that runs through it all. You have to communicate through each step of these skills.

Holly Owens (25:29):

We can dive a lot deeper into this.

Rachel Schell (25:31):

Oh, I know I could talk about This. And we're going to share the link in the show notes too, your

Holly Owens (25:36):

Community and everything that you have developed. But I want to know from you is what do you have? You've already done so much in this space with this community and offering it for free, which I think we talked about that a little bit too, but getting that feedback from users initially is very important in a pilot stage. So what's coming up? What are some of your main goals in the next six to 12 months? Can you share anything with us or with

Rachel Schell (26:06):

The audience? Oh My gosh, yes. Yes, yes.

Holly Owens (26:08):

Yay. Yes,

Rachel Schell (26:09):

Yes. Oh, I'm an open book. You are going to probably be like, why'd we ask her that? I am transparent?

(26:17):

Ask me anything. I'll tell you. T m I. No. So here's, here's how we're moving forward after having emerging leaders for a year and having over 500 members. I was like, okay. I think it's safe to say this is a success. People Want this. It's popular. People want this. Yeah, that's Right. People are showing up every month, so they're still listening. So the next is so many people ask me, they're like, alright, you're helping me understand how these five essential skills are going to help me as a leader, but now I need more. How do I develop my own process? How do I learn to be a project manager from an L and D leader standpoint? How do I know what analysis to conduct and when to conduct it? And how do I know how to make?

(27:13):

Or I keep saying that. How do I know how to make decisions? Hey, that's the buzzword that everybody understands. You're fine. We know what you're saying. Thank you. But now we're to the point to where we need the how. And so that's where I want to go deeper. So we're trying some things right now. We just launched the leadership Lab, and the Leadership Lab is a monthly program for anybody who's got a big leadership idea. So if you've decided I am ready to take that leap to leadership, I want to become a director. I want to become a lead instructional designer, the Leadership Lab is the place where you can come learn the skills, but then apply them. Because one thing I've learned is that I love online learning. As you heard from my past, I will always be a champion for it. But there is one aspect of learning that is going to help someone be the most successful.

(28:15):

And that is a social learning aspect. And that's what the leadership lab does, is it really does take what we're teaching in those monthly online sessions and it helps you apply it. And we're going to challenge one another. I want you to document your process this week and then come back and tell us what happened. How did it work? What did you learn from that? That's how you're going to really, learning is one thing, taking massive action. That's how you take the steps to become a leader. And that's what the Leadership Lab is all about. We're supporting those who want to move up in their career. We are also supporting those who want to start their own business. We're supporting those who want to become, I'm Going to have to join every time you tell me this

Holly Owens (29:04):

Stuff, I'm just going to, I mean, I'm not going to lie, and NAIA might be at this point too, but Naty is a little bit younger than me. I'm ready to be a leader. I mean, I am a leader, but I'm not in a leadership role. I'm still in the self, what's it called? I see the individual contributor Area,

Rachel Schell (29:26):

But that's what the emerging leader framework. Yes. I wish I had come up with this whole idea of the emerging leader framework. I did not create this, but I have adopted it because it's like it was made for what I'm doing it that there's three levels of leadership. Every leader has to start by leading themselves. That's level one, leading someone else. That's level two. And then leading organizational change. That's

Holly Owens (29:54):

Beautiful. Change management.

Rachel Schell (29:56):

That's right. So that's what we do. So the Leadership Lab is helping anyone who wants to do anything in leadership, starting your own YouTube channels, starting your own podcast.

Holly Owens (30:10):

You have some pretty good TikTok or TikTok like videos. I watch those on LinkedIn world.

Rachel Schell (30:17):

Yes, please do. Or Instagram. You can watch 'em on Instagram or the YouTube channel. But yes, it's just those little snippets helping you figure out, okay, how do I do this? So the leadership lab is that community that's going to push you into actually practicing these things. What leaders will tell you, you can't just be a leader and absorb information. You have to take that action. And that's what the Leadership lab is for. We're also working on courses, and we're going to be releasing some courses this year. So surprise, surprise. The courses are going to be around each of the skills, each of the essential skills that you need for l and d leadership. So we're going to do just a general course over the essential skills, and then we are going to focus on each of those skills. And the reason that I really wanted to dive into creating the courses is because I have so many tools and templates I've developed over the years that I've used with my own clients and in my own leadership positions, and I want to share those out with people, but show you how to use those and how they can have a big impact.

(31:32):

I love a good template. I mean, it's like hitting fast forward sometimes, and it's applying that. So we're going to have some courses come out. And then I also offer coaching very limited, though I am very selective in who I coach, but those people, that's a lot of time. It's a lot of time. And it's also a lot of mentoring. And those that I coach have to be ready to actually get that job in leadership because I set up meetings with my network and you actually meet with leaders and you're actually doing real networking. I'm very selective about who I work with and who I'm going to put in front of people in my network. But the leadership lab, that's really the place that we're seeing a lot of growth in movement right now. Everything I do, I try to keep a very low barrier to entry on it. So the leadership lab right now is only $20 a month at 1997 a month. Just trying to keep it to where I understand as an emerging leader, I was there, you have so much going on. So I want to make it accessible to those who are ready to start taking those steps.

Nadia Johnson (32:54):

That's awesome. I also think it's one of those things like, although I'm not really in this leadership phase of my career, I think it's one of those things, even if you want to get there, you kind of need to start. I feel like some of these skills need to be built as you're still in these different roles.

Holly Owens (33:13):

So right Onia,

Nadia Johnson (33:15):

I think it's something that even if it may take me a few years to get there, it's still something like, once I get there, I'll have the skills that I need to be able to move into those leadership roles. So I think it's still good for anyone who's not, doesn't have the leadership brain right now, but is going to eventually probably get there or want to get there.

Rachel Schell (33:37):

Absolutely. Absolutely. And a good example of that is sometimes when I'm consulting, when you're consulting, you never really know what you're going to get thrown in on. And sometimes you're thrown into a team where you're going to help support them, create learning and development so that you can see how it's done so you can create a new program. That's not uncommon for me, having my leadership skills is huge because I will often be, I'll be on a team and I'm just a contributor, and they'll go, how long do you think it would take to put together that video? And I'm like, I know project management. I'm going to tell you this is who we need and this is how long that I expect 'em to take. And have we built in reviews? I mean, how many times are we going to review this? And just being able to have that conversation. I love it. I love it because it helps with so many things. I could give an example on all the skills, but yeah, just knowing those skills, even if you're not actively leading, you can contribute so much.

Nadia Johnson (34:45):

Totally agree. So is there anything else that we missed? Anything else you want to share with our audience about any new exciting things or things that we didn't cover?

Rachel Schell (34:59):

No, just the one thing that I want to say that I truly believe in is if you've ever thought about being a leader and something is holding you back because you don't look like any other leaders or sound like any other leaders, I want you to recognize right now I'm here telling you that that is your proof, that you need to be a leader. We need someone that represents all of these people in this wide world, and you can lead if that's what you want to do, because your story is going to inspire and change somebody's life. Sometimes you have to get out of your own way and you have to just take action. If you've ever thought about it, just take action and do it. You will be so happy you did. It's going to change your life and you're going to change somebody else's life in the process. That's

Nadia Johnson (35:57):

Awesome advice, especially for people who are introverted like me.

Holly Owens (36:02):

We're

Nadia Johnson (36:02):

Afraid To get out there sometimes. That's awesome advice.

Holly Owens (36:06):

Yes. I love that. That's very inspirational too. I feel like when I was given the opportunity to be a leader, I was not ready for it. But now a little bit differently about that.

Rachel Schell (36:16):

Yeah. Well, I mean, even if you have an opportunity, just go ahead and take it. Take it and learn along the way. I think all of us are meant to be leaders in some part of our life and do it. Do it because the worst thing that's going to happen is you're going to walk away with a really interesting story.

Holly Owens (36:39):

Absolutely. Very

Nadia Johnson (36:42):

True.

Holly Owens (36:43):

Well, Rachel, we can't thank you enough for coming on the show and sharing all of your expertise

Rachel Schell (36:50):

With our audience and us too. I

Holly Owens (36:52):

Took two pages full of notes in my notebook.

Rachel Schell (36:56):

Oh my gosh.

Holly Owens (36:56):

And we will definitely be sure to link to everything about you and everything about the merging leaders and l and d so that people can go out and connect with others. Again, thank you so much for your time.

Rachel Schell (37:08):

Oh my gosh, this was absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for having me on and just letting me nerd out for a few minutes about leadership. That's what

Holly Owens (37:18):

We do. We love it.

Rachel Schell (37:19):

We love

Holly Owens (37:20):

It.

Rachel Schell (37:21):

Awesome.