154: Collaboration in Learning and Development Unlocking Career Success Through Networking, with Aleza Jerome, Solutions Designer

Holly Owens (00:01.57)
Hello everyone and welcome to another fantastic and live episode of EdUp L &D. My name is Holly Owens and I'm your host and I am really excited. These are probably some of my favorite episodes to do where I get to chat with former students from Touro University in the Graduate School of Technology. So I have my.

One of my favorites, I will say that because you have such a vast amount of experience back in like graphic design. So was learning a lot from you that I have Aleza Jerome, she's married now and she is coming to us from the world of learning and development. And we're gonna talk about all the things. So we're excited to have you welcome to the show.

Aleza (00:51.426)
Thank you so much for having me. have to say one of your classes, I had two of your classes and they were the best. I have to say they were the best classes that I ever took and I love taking my skills that I had and bringing them to everything that you taught us as well.

Holly Owens (00:56.815)
well, thank you.

Holly Owens (01:07.672)
Well, I'm excited to hear this because I know a little bit of your story, but I don't know the whole story. So why don't you give us a little bit of your background where you've been, where you're kind of at right now and just just tell us who you are.

Aleza (01:19.854)
Okay, so I'm going to start with where I started off. I started off originally as a graphic designer. So really as an art graphic designer. I went to FIT for undergrad for advertising design. So I was really in that graphic advertising world using all those Adobe tools, Photoshop, Illustrator in design. And I was just purely a designer.

Holly Owens (01:25.952)
Yeah, that part.

Aleza (01:43.694)
And I also was very into UX design at the same time. So for me, it was like, how do I get into that UX side of the world? also those skills really show a lot within the learning aspect of.

learning and development. So for me, felt that like I just kept gravitating towards demoing, presentations. And it wasn't really just about like the advertising idea anymore for me. It was more how do you get someone to use a product or how do you get someone to use a specific tool. And that's what led me more or less to my journey to go for my masters at Turo.

Holly Owens (02:20.332)
Yeah, that's awesome. I think I remember if I remember correctly, were you in a different program before you joined the ITP program? Yeah.

Aleza (02:28.234)
I was. Yeah, I started off first in.

I was thinking about going for my masters in the full on systems side of the technical asset, that side. And I changed because sat next to him at the time, my coworker who is now the director of Habas, and he also has a masters from Tura. So he more or less, he said to me, like, you have to go back for your masters. He's like, Tura was the place for you. And I looked at him, I was like, really? He really thinks so? He's like, yeah, he's like, have the skills.

and everything that you're doing here is really this master's program. And it kind of, just journeyed my way through and it really, was, was like written, I feel like my name was written all over the program in that way. A lot of the stuff that I was doing at Havaspleim was everything that we were learning in school.

Holly Owens (03:05.88)
Mm-hmm.

Holly Owens (03:14.989)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (03:21.294)
Yeah, I think that's awesome too that you had like a great person to kind of point you in the direction and they already knew internally like what it was all about. It's always great to have a good mentor or somebody pointing you towards what and seeing that yourself because you know you kind of question like what you're saying you're like, you have that imposter syndrome you're like, is it really for me should I really do that but I'm glad that you did. And one of the things I remember most about you being in my class is the fact like your graphic design skills are stellar.

Like every deliverable that you produced was so well done. And I think I'd ask you to use some of your, I still use some of your work as exemplars for future students to see things. It's just like you're such a proactive student and I can see that in your work. And now, you you've been at Adobe, you're doing different things. So what is maybe some things that you learned within the Touro program?

that you're like, this really did align with things that are happening in a real world setting and things that maybe we talked about in some of the classes or just content that you were like, yeah, this really, this really, aha, this really connects.

Aleza (04:33.902)
So for me, think at the time I was still at Havas and a lot of the training and the work that I was doing at Havas was using actually Adobe products. So at the time I was like, it was internal, so I wasn't allowed to talk about it. Now that like I'm out there anymore, it's like, I speak to my boss is still from there and he always asks me, he's like, you really like, you like took our users hands like and really walked them through the product as a cut. Like I was like more or less their internal customer success.

specialists. really like take it, figuring out the right training products and like figure out the right training links to share with them with the employees at the time was exactly what like you taught in your class as well. Like how to build the right training, more or less the right training, I guess, workflow, like just everything. Like how to build a training, LMS or like everything, just like the way that it goes from like start to finish.

Holly Owens (05:29.858)
Mm-hmm.

Aleza (05:30.762)
and taking that user's hands again. like that same experience, hope that makes sense.

Holly Owens (05:37.484)
Yeah. like the important piece to know that in the 673, the designing online instruction class is that you are the SME, you are the instructional designer. You're doing a lot of your own feedback, getting feedback from your peers and myself as well. But really you are, you are taking nothing and designing an entire training course from, like you said, start to finish and you're trying to build.

within that process, different deliverables like the course mapping, what LMS you're going to be using to house this information, how learners are gonna be interacting in an asynchronous online course and it had to be roughly eight to 10 hours. So, that really does emulate what happens in the real world. Like you have to do addy the whole way through. Yeah.

Aleza (06:21.76)
Mm-hmm. And I actually see like at that time, this was back how many years ago? like four years ago already.

Holly Owens (06:27.246)
it's yeah, I can't believe it. Like, you know, I talked to Josephine Coco a couple of weeks ago and she's graduated in 2022. I'm like, geez, it's already been two years. It's crazy.

Aleza (06:39.31)
Yes, and we had you like when our first year. yeah, so like that and a lot of technology has changed also rapidly with that as well, which I've definitely seen that like in the real, like from being in school and then also like in the real world, like just everything in general is like shifted, especially with AI.

Holly Owens (06:41.132)
Yes! Yes!

Aleza (06:57.79)
That's a big part as well that I've seen, like definitely has been interesting to see like how people are learning or how people are really like working on like how they're really training those and you like those employees or like those end users and that way too things have really shifted.

Holly Owens (07:14.264)
they have a first-year and there's a lot more of like streamlined activities. if somebody is like coming into this field and like you have this vast array of experience in graphic design but also instructional design and training. So if somebody is coming into this field and they're like, and I'm sure you get asked this question because of the places that you work, like how do you get into this area of learning and development but also to, and a lot of the questions I get asked are like,

do I need to upskill? Is that a thing? I really need to purchase some of these products and really upskill in the area? So first question is like, how do you get there and how do you start? And then what products should you be upskilling in?

Aleza (07:57.806)
So I think getting there, I think it really would also depend on, especially now, seeing the roles on LinkedIn and seeing all the different types of positions. I myself never just went down towards just the learning itself. think also customer success or customer solutions. I think that that's another way to also introduce the learning portion of it.

Holly Owens (08:19.53)
I love that. Yes.

Aleza (08:22.01)
And that's a big thing I've seen especially with customer solution roles. You need to demo. You need to train. You need to explain that to the end user. And I think that that's a really big part of a solution designer, solution consultant in that way. And I think that having a learning and development portion really comes in there as well. So I think that that's definitely, hopefully, I think that answer is the first part.

Holly Owens (08:46.678)
Yeah, you definitely need to be able to break it down for them. Like how is this thing going to help them with return on investment or really internally streamline some things or bring in that revenue that they're asking for. Like using this could equivalent to this. So you really do have to break it down because sometimes in using this, I'll tell you just right off the bat, I'll be honest, the Adobe products intimidate me.

I think I told you that in class. They intimidate me. I mean, I started using them when I was at Amazon and I felt a little less intimidated, but they still are. I know. So you're able to break that down and really show people how that can work for them.

Aleza (09:11.945)
You did. And I could say.

Aleza (09:20.654)
It's so.

Aleza (09:27.137)
Yeah, like I've been using Adobe since high school. So for me, I do AP computer graphics in high school and then.

Holly Owens (09:30.487)
I love that.

Aleza (09:34.766)
When I was in FIT, took Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign at the time, and now I'm a huge lover for Express. Express is like their new product. And that's a big thing, and I know that it will definitely take over a lot of the colleges at one point, too. So it's amazing, because there's so much there. And it really breaks down. I always say everyone always compares. Everyone gravitates towards Canva, and I'm like.

Holly Owens (09:52.216)
Mm-hmm.

Aleza (09:59.694)
I'm like, no, I'm like a real designer. I don't touch Canva. I'd rather use like, I'm like huge Adobe inside and out. Like I get Adobe, I get the products. And they also have a ton of training too. And they have a huge, huge like ed courses and like everything. And it's really like a lot of the stuff is there, especially online learning too. Like there's this high level of information and for some of them it's really going on there for the first time. I understand why it's overwhelming and completely confusing. And you're like, where do I go first? But,

Holly Owens (10:10.283)
Mm-hmm, they do.

Aleza (10:28.846)
But once you get used to it, think that a lot of the tools are very similar in ways.

Holly Owens (10:33.58)
Yeah, it's definitely something that once you get into it, you kind of see the similarities across the different products and there's the ways in which things operate are very similar. So you do feel more comfortable. And, you know, like in talking about Canva, like I use Canva every day, but that's more for like the basic stuff that you're doing when you really need to get into more, I call it graphic design-y, you need to use more of the advanced products, the more of the ones that have the intricacies and things.

Aleza (10:48.792)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (11:00.888)
So I would say to people that it's, you know, what you're saying, it's important to know these different products. And I always tell people know enough just to be dangerous. And then once you onboard in the company, then you can start getting into more of the advanced functionalities of the products.

Aleza (11:17.23)
Exactly. I feel like a lot of it depends on the company too. Some companies gravity towards one over the other really depends, really depends.

Holly Owens (11:23.006)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Canva is really for quick. Like you got, if you need something quick, they got templates, you can throw some stuff in, you know, for quick stuff. But there's definitely much to be said. And I had a friend who was a graphic designer and kind of hearing you talk that being a graphic designer isn't Canva and Canva isn't, you know, fully. And I love Canva. I'm not saying I don't love it, but it's not, graphic designers are formally trained to do certain things that Canva may or may not do.

Aleza (11:42.84)
Thanks.

Aleza (11:52.064)
Yeah, and that's what Express is similar with that as well, especially from a marketing perspective. It has the ability to integrate all the Adobe products.

But then you can also within there, they have their whole Firefly and AI side too, you can put in like what you're looking for template wise and like it has, there's so much more than Canva. And you're taking some of your like Photoshop files and you bring them into Canva then in Express, you can just keep them in that same ecosystem. That's just the way my brain always thinks.

Holly Owens (12:12.129)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (12:21.038)
Yeah, yeah. And that's good way to say like you're using the products the way that you metacognitively like the way that you do things. So that's important. That's an important piece too. I think that's why I have such a challenge with the Adobe products or there's just a, I've built this up so much. Like there's a barrier there now that shouldn't be there, but anyways, I won't get all that conversation. And you know, one of the things that people often ask is that, you know, landing a role in like a learning and development field.

Really the technology, in my honest opinion, is secondary to how you work with other people and what the culture is like. Can you talk a little bit about that? You know Adobe really well. You know what it can do and its limitations and things like that. when you're in this team environment, what are some of the things that people need to be aware of if they're jumping into this sort of role?

Aleza (13:11.31)
I think that it really depends on the role also, but I think that with any company, think it doesn't even matter anywhere you are. It's that collaboration and really figuring out how to collaborate and work well with others and how to see where you really fit in. To see, what's my role and how could I help the other person and how would they help me? So it's more of how do you get the job done? It's not just a one person show.

Holly Owens (13:33.187)
Mm-hmm.

Holly Owens (13:36.822)
It's a symbiotic relationship.

Aleza (13:39.212)
Yeah, and I mean for me, I started off that way in college. I feel like that was a big thing. We had our group projects, and that also shows that too. You have your group projects, and then that leads into your working in both places.

the real world and you're seeing those group projects are the same thing. Okay, who's gonna get up and present? Who's gonna get up and do the research? The different roles really, they come in there too. for me, I love getting up to present, but at the same time, I'm also the type of person that loves to do the research and the work too. So it's like, how do you split that up? How do you find that right in between, the right balance? Yeah.

Holly Owens (13:57.344)
Right, the different roles.

Holly Owens (14:11.394)
How do you balance that? Yeah, yeah. That's definitely, and you know, you've mentioned a lot, I'm drawing a common theme here, is that your real world, your experience throughout your education career has really helped you adapt to what happens in the real world. And one of the questions I get asked so frequently out on LinkedIn land is like, do you need a master's degree to be in this field? Like, do you feel like in, you know,

To me, my answer is always it's based on case by case. But how do you feel about it, as much as it's helped you in elevating your career and different things?

Aleza (14:48.174)
It's funny because I had this conversation with my husband and parents recently about this and I was saying to myself, I always like, for me, I love giving back. love, like I also always wanted to teach like a night class. Like that was my dream. So like hopefully down the road, that was the reason I also went for the masters for me. But I think that like if someone's in the real, like if, I always say it can't hurt. That's my full on like it can't hurt to have that masters because you never know where it's going to lead you. Especially like right now.

Holly Owens (14:50.08)
Ha ha ha.

Holly Owens (15:01.474)
Mm-hmm.

Holly Owens (15:06.094)
Mm-hmm.

Aleza (15:17.974)
I wouldn't have met you, wouldn't have met everyone else, my masters. And you never, really never know how it's going to help you in your future. But I think that like also like having that experience really helps too. think that like the more experience I had, had, thankfully I had a lot of experience when I went back to my masters. I graduated college, like undergrad six years before. So for me, it was like, I was in the real world and like, I couldn't decide what masters I wanted to go for.

Holly Owens (15:19.766)
I know, I know.

Holly Owens (15:46.541)
It's hard.

Aleza (15:47.168)
And it came down to that point of like, okay, like everything that I'm doing is kind of like leading towards this specific masters. It's the same, it all, was the same stuff. was the same, I was seeing the same experiences, the same like.

Holly Owens (15:56.033)
the same stuff.

Aleza (16:01.486)
just everything was the same. So for me it made sense to go for the masters. But I think it really would depend on a person on how they're feeling within their position, if they want to grow in their position, they don't see growth where they are, let's say. Something like that. feel like that also, you never know, having that masters could also help you where you are. And then could also open up doors somewhere else as well.

Holly Owens (16:12.814)
Mm-hmm.

Holly Owens (16:20.098)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's a good, that's a great perspective to have. And again, it's just like, depending upon where you're at and also to lots of institutions and companies will pay for you. You'll get that tuition remission depending upon where you go. And that's definitely something people should ask about if they're interviewing for roles. Like if I went to further myself in, you know, being more professionally developed and I'm thinking about a master's degrees, are you going to cover that? How is that all going to look?

So I would say to people who are thinking about the master's degree, ask your position if they, because if they offer you things to go in like conferences and stuff, they probably have some money set aside for you to maybe get further your education, get a master's degree or some sort of certification in that. So that could really help you make the decision. I know for a lot of people money is either a barrier or it's an opportunity if the company does offer that.

Aleza (17:13.11)
Yeah, thankfully when I was at Havas and then I was at Cross River also, they were very pro getting the masters. And I know that Adobe is same way as well. Any company that I've been at, they're very pro. They want you to have the masters. It looks good. They're just pro education. The more learning, the better.

Holly Owens (17:33.678)
Yeah, definitely. Adobe has huge conferences every year that you can go to. And like some of the other big conferences, I'm going to DevLearn next month, which I've never been to, shockingly. So I'm excited about that. Even those kind of situations where you can be in an environment where there's other learning professionals, ask about those too. See if you can go to a conference or two and network with people. Speaking of networking, how do you feel about

in this field, you talked a lot about before we jumped into call some of the connections that you made and how that maybe might lead to other things. So how do you see networking as an important piece of jumping into the field of learning and development?

Aleza (18:16.046)
I always say network, network, network. That's my biggest, my biggest, biggest, always. I do. Sorry, someone's ringing my doorbell.

Holly Owens (18:23.214)
You're good. Do you need to answer it?

Aleza (18:27.254)
No, I don't know. not gonna get somewhere we're going. So for me, the networking part really, it helps. It's funny because my husband always says to me, he's like, you always are networking. And I'm like, you have to. any case you are, I've been networking since FIT. That was first thing I learned in FIT. Landing your job.

Holly Owens (18:29.826)
Okay.

Holly Owens (18:39.49)
Yeah.

Aleza (18:48.962)
You have to network. You have to network. You have to add everyone on. You have to introduce yourself. I used to just go up to like hire people and everyone used to look at me like you're going up to that person. And I'm like, yeah, I'm just going to go introduce myself. I'm like, I'm a little nothing, but you never know. You just go up to the person, introduce yourself. And I used to do that all the time. And it really, it makes a difference. I have such a story that I met someone as when I was a customer.

And I went in for an, they had me like training and going in for an NDA product. They had me looking at one of their products and I met this guy in the elevator and I'm like, hi, I'm Aleza. And he's looking at me like, why are you so friendly? And I'm like so peppy and friendly and like, and I'm like, I'm Aleza, nice to meet you. And he's like, okay, nice to meet you too. like, what product do you work on? And he's like, I'm at a lot of say. And then I'm like, okay. guess like it's, he's working on something I know I'm supposed to know about.

Holly Owens (19:28.745)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (19:39.286)
Right. Very secretive.

Aleza (19:43.726)
And then I went to the conference actually, it was two weeks later and there he was presenting the new product. And I went over to him afterwards and I said to him, I'm like, he's like, we met in the elevator. He's like, I remember you. I was like, you remember me? was like, maybe I didn't. Hopefully that was like a good, like not like a bad, like, she was right, peppy, very friendly. And he says, he's like, yeah, I remember exactly who you are. And we actually, figured out he went to FIT too, but like years before me.

Holly Owens (19:57.986)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (20:12.323)
Yeah.

Aleza (20:12.494)
And he had a lot of like similar like backgrounds in that way. And then years later, like a few months ago, I bumped into him again. And he looking at me like, I knew you, where do I know you from? I was like 2016, the elevator. And he was like, he's like, I remember you. Like it's, it comes back. Like it's a good way to connect and like reconnect and like, it's just that that's yeah, I love connecting and you never know where it's going to lead you.

Holly Owens (20:27.245)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (20:35.18)
Yeah, you never know. like you ran into him recently, like and also too, if they could like things that happen, know, like jobs get created or if you're looking for a position or you're out in the freelance world, you just never know what's going to happen. Or if you're just making that connection and they might know somebody that knows somebody, I feel like even though we are in a digital age or in a digital space, the connecting and finding roles is still very much in the

the old school mentality where if you know somebody that knows somebody or you've connected with somebody that you are going to be able to have like a, I guess a leg up on the competition, knowing somebody internally or if somebody can recommend you or they can refer you to the role. I've seen the referring is like a big thing now. Yeah, for sure.

Aleza (21:24.632)
Yeah. You referred me at a point also, like I always say like that's, you know, like that person that's going to help you never know where it's going to lead to. really, you never.

Holly Owens (21:35.082)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So if you're not talking to people, you're not, you know, as much as it is connecting with them and having that human connection, you're not helping yourself. So you really do need to be out there networking. And I can say that, you know, and starting my role with Yellowdig today, that if I didn't network, I would not have this role I currently have. This was not something that...

Aleza (21:53.314)
Thank you.

Holly Owens (21:59.116)
was on my bingo card for life, but I'm happy that I landed here. and networking was a huge part of that. It was a huge part of

Aleza (22:09.159)
I always say that makes the biggest difference. It really does.

Holly Owens (22:12.236)
Yeah. So tell us about some of the technologies and tech tools that you think people should be using and are some of the easiest things they can just integrate into their daily workflows. It's just going to improve things for the end user to see, but it's also going to upskill them and help them maybe develop a portfolio piece or just have something to talk about in an interview. What are some of your favorite tech tools?

Aleza (22:38.39)
My favorite tech tools, I'm gonna say, it's crazy to say this, I still use my Adobe products. So for me, like, it's not really a tech tool, but it is in a way. Just building on using just the right, it really depends on the tool that you want to, like, if it's a, like in what way, like you're using like in like in videos or in, sorry that.

Holly Owens (22:58.536)
I miss those Manhattan sirens. No, I miss it. It's so it's like you get so used to it, right? Yeah, you don't even pay.

Aleza (23:05.934)
I'm so used to it, just like, I mean, I'm Sorry about that. for tech tools in one way or like, yellow did that type of tool, like those type of tools, you're.

Holly Owens (23:13.272)
You're fine.

Holly Owens (23:19.03)
Yeah, like if you're in a learning and development role and somebody is like asking you to create this learning experience, like what would you tell people? Like where would they start? What are some of your like favorite things that just kind of streamline that process?

Aleza (23:32.334)
I mean, for me, even like now, like I still go back to LinkedIn. You post so much on LinkedIn Learn, and like on LinkedIn in general, and that helps me learn too, like to keep up with like some of that style as well, as well some of those products. But for me, like, I'm a big, like, I learned through LinkedIn Learning a lot of the time too. And I'm a big, like, person that goes straight back to like...

It really depends on the situation. For me, if it's something that's video based or something like that, it would really depend on how you're trying to get that specific product or the use case across. It's starting off with like...

Holly Owens (24:08.908)
Yeah. So you're saying like, so maybe the question is then like, how do you evaluate what to use? Like what in your mind, when you go to start a project, because I think this is one thing that people in instructional design, especially in our end development, they might have create some barriers here is like when you go to start on a project, what are some of the things that you're like, okay, I need to use this, this and this and why.

Aleza (24:33.014)
Yeah, and I think that that was my big struggle also in college to like figuring out like what was the right product to use. And you giving us all those different examples and how like which products to look into. Like I know a lot of them beforehand. Like for me, like again, like I always gravitated towards using Adobe. Like I was always that Adobe Adobe Adobe person. Like I never thought to use like Yellowdig and you showed us like a bunch of different tools. Like I can go back and elicit them. I would have never for myself like thought to use them.

Holly Owens (24:45.122)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (24:56.322)
Hmm.

Aleza (25:00.438)
And some of them really made a difference because they integrate too with all the different products. For me, I'm also a big Microsoft person. So PowerPoint is a big portion that I use. Between PowerPoint and Express, that's how I get everything across. then doing the research on figuring out how to explain it to someone or explain it to the end user, that's where that would come in first. for me, it's like,

Holly Owens (25:17.038)
Mm-hmm.

Aleza (25:28.958)
the end product would be either in like a PowerPoint or like a presentation style, but doing the research to get there would really make that difference if that makes sense.

Holly Owens (25:38.518)
Yeah, absolutely. Research is just huge part of it. You know, like I think at the beginning of project, like when I'm handing something like, how am I doing this project? How am I managing this project? What tools am I using to manage the time and what the like what this phase one phase two phase three look like, what's current state and what's future state? And like you're saying that it does really depend, but also to like use the things that you're comfortable with so that you're not spending a lot of time learning something new.

So make sure that you're learning the products pretty well. So I think one of the challenges I definitely had coming in to Amazon, like I was very novice when it came to articulate like Storyline and Rise. So one of the things I made it a goal to do is to learn those in advance. So when I talk to SMEs or stakeholders, I could provide them with like, this is what it can do, but there are some limitations here, but here's our solution for if we experience some of those limitations or we have those barriers.

Aleza (26:34.158)
Yeah, think finding the right solution is definitely, you nailed it on that. The solution also has the values too. Is it going to be valuable for that specific use case as well?

Holly Owens (26:44.994)
Yeah, yeah, and can you use it over and over again? Like instructional design and graphic design are so iterative. Like you have to go back and I tell you all this in class, I say this every semester, is that your first iteration is not your best iteration and it's never final. It's never final. You always have to go back to it and you're gonna have to make some changes to it. So don't get like caught up in the, you know, like, this is the final thing. It's so great. It's so wonderful because at a certain point you're gonna think to yourself like,

Aleza (26:51.842)
Yeah.

Aleza (27:02.349)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (27:15.05)
yeah, this needs to change or, know, like AI came out. So how does that impact what you're doing? All those different external factors that really do impact process.

Aleza (27:25.078)
And that definitely does make a difference. I think that also, for me, what I've seen also in working as well is instructional design and product design are very similar. Because you can come up with, it's like coming up with that specific concept or coming up with that specific solution, which is both aspects of it. And you're coming up with your solution, but again, you're going back and you're updating and you're changing and you're making updates to that specific.

Holly Owens (27:36.876)
Mm-hmm.

Aleza (27:53.358)
like products or the specific, just everything, like just updating everything and like, it's just the iterations always, always, it's going to change. Nothing's like set in stone. And that's the, remember him saying that like in one of the first classes too, you're like, you're like, don't get into like, and I remember hearing that also like working too, like when I worked on products, like that was at the time, it was the same thing.

Holly Owens (28:02.626)
Yeah. Yeah.

Holly Owens (28:14.382)
It's really a common misconception that it's never your final draft. And I think that people think about it that way. That means you're not open to innovation or changing things. You're very close to that. And that's not a way to be in this because in this learning and development realm, because stuff changes all the time. Daily priorities change. Different processes are changing. As you're building something, the process has probably already changed. So you're going to go half.

have to go back to it anyways and make those

Aleza (28:49.006)
So you muted yourself.

Holly Owens (28:49.918)
I did, I muted myself. So be very comfortable with that and making those changes. Now, if you had to give, you know, for the people in the audience who are listening or who listening after the live, if you had to give like three pieces of advice for people who are wanting to jump into this sort of industry, what would you say to them?

Aleza (29:08.78)
Research, number one, it's always my biggest, biggest one. Always research. Be open to opportunities, because you never know just because it may not be like what you exactly think is what you want. It may lead to something else, if that makes sense. You don't want to, like you said, you don't want to have that like settle, you want to make sure that like.

you can grow and you can learn, which is what you're trying to help others with. So you want to be able to have that opportunity as well. So I think that that would be number two. And number three.

Holly Owens (29:36.12)
Mm-hmm.

Aleza (29:43.096)
Keep learning. You never want to stop learning. That's a big, big, big thing for me. I'm always, always like, if someone's like, you want to, do you know this product? And I'm like, no, but I'll learn about it. And I will sit there and I will learn inside and out. think that that's a big, in any job, any career, anything that you do, always be willing to learn and grow. really, it's a big part in just in general to always be willing to.

Holly Owens (29:56.654)
Yeah.

Aleza (30:11.886)
keep going and learning. And that's where the AI, which I didn't bring back before, AI is something that like I see that being a big change.

in this industry as well as every industry right now. But I think that the way to learn and I actually took a course with Professor Bina had an hourly session like a few months ago back on AI. And I love it and I took the course just for myself just to like on like ChatGTP and everything like that because I've been using like Copilot, ChatGTP. I've used the Adobe Acrobat AI. I've just been like clicking into everything I'm prompting into

Holly Owens (30:24.27)
Mm-hmm.

Holly Owens (30:35.022)
Yeah, like a workshop.

Aleza (30:50.32)
everything just to play around to see. And I think that that's going to be a big part also within the learning aspect of the world. Because if you're not willing to learn and really be willing, be ready for the change, you have to be ready. That's a big thing. I tell everyone that all the time. If you're not willing to learn it, you're just not going to get it. You have to be. If you're not going to be, then this isn't the right careers for you. That's just my...

Holly Owens (31:00.962)
Be ready to adapt to it.

Aleza (31:17.452)
my way looking at it. You always have to be willing.

Holly Owens (31:19.97)
Yeah, for sure. So you're talking about the adaptability, the willingness to learn, being open. That's all intertwined into these experiences. Now, how do feel about, people always ask, commonly ask about portfolio pieces, is that essential? Do you think that's essential?

Aleza (31:43.406)
Yes and no. So for me, my resume is really like it sells, it's there, sells in a way. But at the same time, I also have to like, when I'm on a call with someone, I have to explain more of the values. then sometimes they ask for a portfolio piece, but I myself, I've been really bad at keeping my portfolio updated, which is not good. And I have to work on my resume.

Holly Owens (32:04.118)
It's hard. Everything needs to be updated. You're like, which, where'd I start? yeah.

Aleza (32:09.134)
When I graduated FIT for undergrad even like I had like a full-blown like website and everything and like Over the years I kind of since I gravitated towards like instructional technology and everything like that like for me like a kind of and like even like UX project management like everything that I've been working on I don't really have a like my portfolio just like I have like stuff But I don't I don't share it unless someone asks me to honestly but but I could speak to like what I've worked on and like the value and like

I like all the connections that I've made, like people value, like they like both allegency, like yes, like I worked with Lisa, like she was really helpful. We like had, like we missed her, things like that. So like I, I've had that over my time in my career as well.

Holly Owens (32:47.459)
Right?

Holly Owens (32:53.454)
Yeah. So any, we're going to jump into some questions because I do see one question in the LinkedIn chat from Colleen. And she's asking about when you say an updated portfolio, what do you mean? That's a good question.

Aleza (33:11.458)
By portfolio, what do you mean? Like in...

Holly Owens (33:13.396)
Like an updated portfolio, like what do you mean?

Aleza (33:15.688)
like what work you've worked on. like if you're in school,

Holly Owens (33:18.464)
Yeah, your most recent, like within the past five years, I would say, is a good calling the most recent work that you've done. But also too, there might be some older things that maybe you can show the evolution of, like where it started and where it is now. I think that's important to put in the portfolio because that shows people your progress. That shows people.

you know, how you've up skilled or how you've changed things based off of like anything that's impacting it externally.

Aleza (33:49.478)
that actually you nailed it on what you just said with the process. I've seen that like even like from like undergrad to like to her like showing the and even like in the workforce as well showing like how you started from point A to point C and really like even if it's just like

scribbles or whatever it is, or like, well, like I think that that like really just showing like the process really makes a difference. And like, that was like a big part, like, I know that helped me even get like my first few jobs to like showing like the process of like the products that I worked on. have like, like hiring manager loves to see like, they love seeing like how you're thinking, how you're like, how your brain like how you're really like your makes a difference.

Holly Owens (34:07.861)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (34:19.158)
Yes!

Holly Owens (34:26.83)
100%, it really truly does. It really truly does because it gives them an insider's insight into your brain, what you're doing, how you're working through that, if you encounter barriers. A lot of the questions, and I did a webinar recently with Ice-Bring Solutions about ID interview questions and how to answer them. And one of the things was the behavioral-based questions. And this really does come into play with those behavioral-based questions.

because you're showing in a process, but you're also showing how you deal with, like I said, the different barriers or things change. And there's a lot to be said about documenting your process and showing how you work through things. Most instructional designers use Addy, but there may be different ways in how you interpret how that all works. And it's not linear, and it doesn't necessarily go into circular fashion. that kind of, Colleen has another question.

Aleza (35:14.06)
Yep.

Holly Owens (35:26.848)
If you're just getting started, there any topics you all suggest when creating projects to showcase ID skills?

Aleza (35:36.166)
I what we just, I think also like showing, like just showing that you can work through the process. Like the process is really the skills. I feel like that really shows like your skills right there. Like if you can show that and you can demonstrate like that you have the skills within that specific, like just demonstrating that I think that that's really the full way there. But is there anything else?

Holly Owens (35:59.106)
Yeah, absolutely. I would say too, that it's important. Like if you're a teacher or if you're coming from that education space that you're showing, you know, if you've developed like a full curriculum, like that's program management. That's probably, you you incorporate a lot of project management into that as well. And really honing in on those transferable skills, like lesson planning, pedagogy, how that can shift into androgogy. So,

looking at those transferable skills and your portfolio should be multimodal. It's not just documentation, it's not just presentations, it's videos. It's all different kinds of deliverables that you have created. And if you're just getting started, I would say focus in on those things like you're like, this project, I did it really well and I'm really proud of it. Even, there's a misconception like you shouldn't use things that you did in the classroom as long as they're not proprietary. Like don't share anything that's...

Aleza (36:33.016)
videos too.

Holly Owens (36:54.392)
confidential or stuff like that. But really showcase those things and be proud of what you bring to the table. And then as you begin to get those different roles, then you can start updating those pieces to different things that are maybe in a corporate setting or maybe in a higher education setting.

Aleza (37:10.542)
That's, yeah, you nailed it on that. that's definitely also, I remember, like, when I did my thesis, one of the big questions that was asked, like, did you put survey out afterwards? Like, it somewhat, like, anybody that you trained or anything that you walked through training, did you send out that survey afterwards? I think that that's a big part as well. Like, I remember, like, I went through that, and I remember the dean, asked me, he's like, Aleza, what's the feedback? And that's a big part, too.

Holly Owens (37:22.712)
true.

Aleza (37:40.506)
had at someone, did you really get everything across to the end? Do they understand what you're saying? Do they understand, is it helping them? And that's a big thing as well. Like having that survey at the end really will make that difference too.

Holly Owens (37:45.463)
you

Holly Owens (37:51.32)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (37:56.822)
Yeah, absolutely. Because, know, like sometimes like the Kirkpatrick level, like one and two, maybe they get into some of those things, but just knowing like how you can pull out the information you need from the end user. Like what you, what do you really want to know? Some of it's holistic, some of it's very like black and white, yes or no type things, you know, like do you like the evaluations you fill out at the end of a course in the semester, those are very targeted and very much like you figure out like where people.

how people really feel. And also too, in the classes that you took, I put in a mid semester survey. So like that mid point of any sort of learning or if there's a, you know, a natural break, that's where you wanna survey people. Not necessarily always at the end. You wanna get their feedback throughout as well because then you can maybe change something that makes it more engaging and more impactful for sure.

Aleza (38:49.526)
That was definitely, I remember that. I remember when you put that out. It was very helpful for me. I hope that you see it, like even in like the real world too, like the scene, like all the time, like products and instructional designers will put that out in the middle to make sure they're getting their across and like it makes sense and they're not losing their users.

Holly Owens (38:51.402)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Holly Owens (39:07.084)
Yep, for sure. Any final thoughts before we wrap up about people jumping into graphic design and to learn in development field, instructional design, getting a master's degree, you know, all those different things. Any final thoughts you want to share with the audience about your experiences or what they should be doing?

Aleza (39:26.006)
network again like I my that's my big big big thing network network network and just build those connections and really always be willing to learn and grow and that that's just my my way of looking at things because like you never know just

Be willing to learn the new products. Be willing to really just stay up to date on everything. Stay up to date on all the AI tools coming out there and all the different tools just in general. think that will help anybody in their career as well as keep them learning and growing and be successful, hopefully.

Holly Owens (39:47.138)
Mm-hmm.

Holly Owens (40:05.068)
Yeah. I, I, you're the epitome of that, of being open to learning and growing, know, growing pains are going to happen and moving right along with what it, what is occurring. That is essential in the field of learning and development is that you can, you can deal with those kinds of things. Like when things kind of get bottlenecked or you run into something, I think you're definitely hitting the nail on the head here with that. You have to be willing to always learn and grow. So that's it. That's a good thing.

Aleza (40:32.438)
And I always say, you never take no, just keep going. Just keep going. If it's a no, it's a no for a reason just to move on to find the next step. But I've always learned that you just got to keep going. I'm like, OK, so if one person says no, they don't like your idea, something like that, or it's not the right place, somebody else will or somebody else will see the values that you have and be willing to work with you as well. So that's a big thing that I've seen as well with my career.

Holly Owens (40:35.148)
Yeah. Yeah.

Holly Owens (40:47.586)
somebody else will.

Holly Owens (40:57.614)
Yeah, well, at least I can't thank you enough for coming on, doing a live first of all, out on LinkedIn and the various spaces, but also just coming back to chat with me. You know, honestly, you were one of the top students in my classes and I loved learning from you. So thank you so much for being willing to share your experiences and your tips with our audience. really appreciate it.

Aleza (41:19.928)
Thank you for inviting me and I appreciated this as well. was really, this was helpful. Yeah, I always say, never, comes in both ways. So I appreciate it. Thank you.

Holly Owens (41:25.708)
Yeah, it comes back to you. It's full circle moment for us, honestly. I'm starting a new job. You you're in the market. So it's all awesome. It's fantastic. So thanks again.

Aleza (41:35.278)
You're very welcome. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it.